Coffee talk in Madison Park: Tully's vs. Starbucks

Moving to a new neighborhood can present some choices that say a lot about who you are. For instance, which coffee gang will you join? In an affluent neighborhood with working-class roots, it's the Stars vs. the Tulls.


When I rented an apartment in Madison Park a couple of years ago, a friend asked me if I'd made my choice. "So, what are you?" he asked. I had no idea what he was talking about. "Are you a Tully's person, or a Starbucks person? In Madison Park, you're either one or the other."

It had never occurred to me that where I bought my coffee would be a declaration of tribal affiliation. But I soon learned what he was talking about. This quiet, affluent neighborhood has a legendary market (Bert's Red Apple) with its popular flower tent, a great hardware store, a holistic pharmacy, a couple of nice old taverns, some good eateries, and a variety of shops that offer eye-candy for the elderly who walk the couple of blocks-long commercial strip with their canes and companions on their daily constitutionals.

But Madison park also features two coffee houses, each with their own feel and clientele.

One is a good-sized Starbucks that has all the amenities, including parking, a lodge-like interior, and a kind of quiet-room that looks like a home-office-away-from home for people who might find the main lodge too noisy while they run their empires from their laptops.

The Starbucks has another standout feature: a reputation as one of the best-run in the chain. A Starbucks barista once told me the staff there are always top-notch. Why? Because this is Howard Schultz's neighborhood Starbucks, and the company chairman and his family could drop in at any time. Woe unto those "partners" who aren't up to snuff. I was there once when Schultz's daughter came in, and I am quite sure no one was going to serve a luke-warm latte to that young lady.

A few doors down in a stand-alone building is a Tully's. It shares a parking lot with the popular market next door. It's much smaller, cozy, like a bungalow, with a blazing fireplace in the front room. The staff and customers seem to know each other. Regular groups of older friends seem to meet there.

I'd say it's homier, but it depends what kind of home you live in, and in this part of town they come big and really expensive, or small and very expensive. Madison Park used to be a resort town, and then was a blue collar burg for a long time. You can still see the remnants of the working class past in the housing. North of Madison Street are acres of tiny bungalows crammed together. Now many are being torn down for mini-villas or remodeled and upgraded. But the modesty of many with their tiny yards speak to a time when they were occupied by working stiffs, not sultans of the Silicon Forest.

Elsewhere, especially in nearby Washington Park or adjacent Broadmoor, you see some of the city's grandest homes. South of Madison toward the lakefront Seattle Tennis Club, you'll find mansions, big old houses, and spacious homes designed by modern architects for folks with too much money to throw around. These aren't mini-villas; they're the real deal.

While Madison Park isn't a neighborhood of rich and poor — except for a few old pockets of non-affluent renters like me — it still carries some shades of class difference, between the upper middle class and the rich; between old-timers and newcomers, between people who seem to prefer an older, unpretentious Seattle and a slicker, more professional one.

Starbucks and Tully's are locally founded chains — one big, one small — and their commercial purpose is the same: to serve coffee-flavored milk made to order; if they can sell you mugs or coffee beans, so much the better. One is much like the other. (And both, by the way, are challenged these days: Tully's is unprofitable and probably for sale, Starbucks is trying to get back its mojo, with Schultz returned to the helm.) But the difference in feel between these two cafes is marked.

Tully's embodies some kind of older, village version of Madison Park. Starbucks seems to bustle like a cross between a busy ski lodge and a place where people in office-casual dress take meetings. The Starbucks and its customers seem a little more groomed, more LA, more SUV. Tully's is a bit more neighborly, relaxed. It's old tennis shoes versus the tennis club.

Howard Schultz has written a new memo to employees reiterating the importance of the chain's role as a Third Place for customers. Some people feel that the wiring of so many Starbucks has diluted the social impact of them: people are so glued to their screens and headsets, they might as well be home alone.

It strikes me that the self-sorting in Madison Park suggests there is something sociologically important going on in these places. It's where people can quietly announce their class identification and aspirations.

As a recession looms, as coffee companies struggle, where will it lead? To coffee gangs? You can imagine "Stars" and "Tulls" battling it out for street corner supremacy in some future, dystopian Mad Park.

In the meantime, I've made my choice: I usually hang on Tully's turf. But the place next door is now serving a $1 cup of joe. That's a powerful temptation to reconsider my loyalties.


Topics: Mossback

About the Author

Knute Berger is Mossback, Crosscut's chief Northwest native. He also writes the monthly Grey Matters column for Seattle magazine and is a weekly Friday guest on Weekday on KUOW-FM (94.9). His newest book is Pugetopolis: A Mossback Takes On Growth Addicts, Weather Wimps, and the Myth of Seattle Nice, published by Sasquatch Books. In 2011, he was named Writer-in-Residence at the Space Needle and is author of Space Needle, The Spirit of Seattle (2012), the official 50th anniversary history of the tower. You can e-mail him at mossback@crosscut.com.

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Comments:

Posted Wed, Feb 13, 8:28 a.m. Inappropriate

Team Starbucks: I think I like Starbucks...yes, they are corporate, but I think they do a good job in tailoring themselves to the neighborhood. Plus, Tully's coffee sucks, although they do carry these lemon bars which are totally a guilty pleasure for me.

Cakespy

Posted Wed, Feb 13, 9:06 a.m. Inappropriate

How about some NEWS?: This is the kind of trivial crap that renders Crosscut irrelevant.

ivan

Posted Wed, Feb 13, 11:04 a.m. Inappropriate

Tully's vs Starbucks in Magnolia: Tully's and Starbucks are faced off on each corner of a block in "downtown" Magnolia. They serve two VERY different audiences as well.

Starbucks is full of young mothers and strollers and there are usually at least 2 or 3 dogs tied outside. Last winter on one of the few Seattle snow days - the street-side wall was lined with dishes and sleds as the school kids took a break from sledding in the park.

Tully's is "meeting central" for the senior crowd - usually full of business owners and members of the Chamber of Commerce board of directors. Tully's offers free wifi so there are usually at least 3 computers open on tables.

Definitely different segments of the neighborhood!
Gail_NK

Posted Wed, Feb 13, 12:19 p.m. Inappropriate

Coffee? Please!: Like what? Too far to go to the Blue Moon, which is where you'd really rather hang out?

Real beaded journalists (think Hemmingway during WW II) hang out in dingy bars and other dens of iniquity, not scrubbed and sanitized sissy places like Starbucks or Tullys.

If you won't do the hard stuff, then at least find a coffee shop where the baristas are appropriately tatted and pierced, with the ultimate being the complete Nirvana discogrophy on a forehead and a 12-penny nail through an eyeball. Now THAT would be a real Seattle coffee experience.

But Starbucks and Tully's? Too much Desparate Houswives about the who and where. You're better served by downing a schooner or three while seated at the bar of the Blue Moon where you'd be right at home.

The Piper

Posted Wed, Feb 13, 7:57 p.m. Inappropriate

Still divided: Stars are blue staters; Tulls shade more red. Tulls has soft espresso flavor ice cream. SBUX has Safeway and QFC kiosk type locations. We have reached saturation; go with the independents and self-employed baristas.

animalal

Posted Thu, Feb 14, 10:20 a.m. Inappropriate

The Horror: Poor deprived Magnolia Park! It clearly needs an indy coffeehouse, or at least a Caffe Vita or Vivace.

Xine

Posted Thu, Feb 14, 10:21 a.m. Inappropriate

RE: The Horror: Magnolia Park? Where is that? I did mean Madison Park.

I knew it didn't sound right.
Xine

Posted Thu, Feb 14, 10:59 a.m. Inappropriate

RE: Coffee? Please!: I'm still waiting for the annual Cobain festival at the Park where Madison Park turns into Madrona, adjacent to the Cobain manse.

A little story - I participated in this web seminar yesterday about economic development and retail. As you may be aware I know a little bit about this subject - risks and benefits - especially around here.

When the economic development official from a 30k city an hour north of Indianapolis starts credits Starbucks and Tax Increment Financing as the secrets of his success, well, that certainly got my attention.

No conclusions, but as they say 'go figure'. I still am.

-Douglas Tooley
Lincoln, Tacoma

Posted Thu, Feb 14, 11:02 a.m. Inappropriate

RE: The Horror: Best be careful, you might give some developer poetic inspiration.

Posted Fri, Feb 22, 6:08 a.m. Inappropriate

No chains in Madison Valley: Madison Valley, the redheaded stepchild of Madison Park, has gentrified in recent years, but is still devoid of chain coffee places. Lots of coffee, however!

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