Frank Chopp's megaduct comes out of hiding
The state House speaker finally goes public with a dramatic idea for replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct on Seattle's waterfront. It involves a long, block-wide structure with a highway within, commercial development below, and an intriguing park on top.
A very large elephant in the room is about to be acknowledged. That would be state House Speaker Frank Chopp's long-concealed pet scheme for the Alaskan Way Viaduct, which becomes public today, Sept. 25, at a meeting of the project's Stakeholder Advisory Committee (4-7:30 p.m. in the Bertha Landes Room of Seattle City Hall). Chopp has been passionately advocating this plan for the past year but not allowing public disclosure or debate. (Unless you're an insider, you're seeing it here first.) The plan is wildly unpopular among politicos who know of it in Seattle. Chopp is wildly powerful in Olympia. Collision time.
After a year of semi-public meetings among planners, the leading contenders for a Viaduct solution had been:
- A surface-transit solution (no highway replacing the Viaduct, but a slow boulevard and lots of traffic diverted through downtown Seattle).
- A bored tunnel under the city, not along the waterfront.
- A low-cost tunnel/trench along the waterfront with a surface boulevard on top.
The Choppway is very different from these. He would build a mega-structure where the Viaduct now stands, just as high and almost twice as wide. The two ground floors would be developed as commercial space all along the structure, except for portals at street crossings. Next level would be an enclosed highway, three lanes in each direction (maybe one lane each way for buses), with vent openings at each cross street cutting under the highway. Atop would be a park with splendid views of Elliott Bay, 90 feet wide and extending more than a mile from the Pike Place Market to South King Street. Lastly, surface traffic would be routed to the east of this megaduct and along Western Avenue, so the (rather narrow) promenade on the waterfront, alongside the docks, would be traffic- and (almost) noise-free.
Chopp is a man possessed. He put the idea down on a napkin in 2001, around the time that the Nisqually Earthquake rattled the now-55-year-old Viaduct, putting it on a list of must-do projects. He's shopped the idea around tirelessly and considerably improved it. One adopted idea, not quite solid, is to take two of the four lanes and dedicate them to Metro Transit bus rapid transit lanes (with stations at Pike Place Market and Pioneer Square). Another idea is adding a large park on Pier 48 just south of the Colman Dock ferry terminal, and maybe also a park in front of the Seattle Aquarium. Chopp's architects have improved the facades and cross-street portals; one nice touch is adding arcades in the retail portions, providing more rain protection.
In effect, the Choppway moves downtown Seattle one block westward and gives the downtown a long front yard. Chopp loves the way it saves the view from the current Viaduct, giving it to all sorts of people who can savor it while strolling rather than shooting glances from a speeding car. Hearing him sermonize about it, one would think it's going to be his legacy.
One big problem is that nearly every interest is lined up against it, including downtown Seattle interests, the design community, the anti-auto, anti-freeway crowd, and people who just want to get a solution, not another donnybrook. Naturally, these people have found it almost impossible to express their real views to Chopp, who just happens to be the most powerful politician in the state, with a personal machine in the House that will do his bidding.
All of which means we are probably heading for a 47-car pileup. Here's how that happens. Following the disastrous election last year, in which voters turned down both a new viaduct and a tunnel, Gov. Chris Gregoire headed for the foxhole, putting in place a year-long study among stakeholders, advocates for various solutions, and the transportation departments of the city, King county, and the state. (Very good process, one gathers.) This process in a month or two provides an analysis of the costs and benefits and problems with all eight solutions that have survived (including Chopp's, called "Scenario E"). Mayor Greg Nickels, county Executive Ron Sims, and the governor (who, of course, might be Dino Rossi, who favors a bored tunnel) then pick the winner, if they can. City and county councils weigh in (probably sheltering behind the mayor and the executive). Then the Legislature. Uh-oh. That's the point where Chopp, if he wishes, easily has the power to veto any plan that is not his pride and joy. Like I said, collision time.
Accordingly, Chopp has been driving the consensus-desperate folks crazy. Is he just putting his idea forth and hoping for fair treatment? Might he go along with the process, even if his idea loses? (I asked Chopp about this, and his way of saying no was to wonder if the other losers would concede and to remind everyone that "the Legislature has to weigh in.") Is he open to compromise? Or is it, as most fear, "My highway or no way!"
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Comments:
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 5:22 a.m. inappropriate
One little problem ...: David: Excellent post. I have only one little criticism. As a current House Democrat, I get a little annoyed whenever there's a reference to the "personal machine in the House that will do his [Chopp's] bidding."
In the framework of how a bicameral legislature works, what goes on behind the closed doors of the caucus rooms is supposed to be confidential. In the caucus room, Republicans and Democrats separately concoct their parties' goals and strategies for the session. Thus, it's easy to imagine that the whip just herds us into that room, wherein the speaker instructs us in what to do. And we do it.
In truth, the speaker is responsible for what has to be the most difficult plate-spinning trick ever attempted by someone who isn't a professional juggler. Frank's power comes from the caucus' collective respect for his judgment in balancing various interests, keeping eight or nine plates spinning at a time. He carries the responsibility for pursuing, and making good, our collective goals in constant negotiation with the governor's office, the Senate and the loyal opposition. It's a pretty formidable power, yes, because he's done a remarkable job.
So, yes, every one of us probably listens a little closer to his arguments, and we may give him the benefit of the doubt on some votes. And for all I know, there may be a few in the caucus who actually "do his bidding." But it's not fair to either us or Frank to suggest that the relationship is that simplistic.
Given the collective irrational mess that constitutes transportation planning, funding and execution around here, I've got no problem at all giving his solution a look-see. Our insistence on a highly fragmented, process-heavy approach to decision-making means that good ideas can get shunted aside. Bad ideas can get bankrolled and sold to a distracted public. I'm not inclined to do Frank's "bidding", but he has earned the right to ask for my respectful attention to his ideas.
After that, we'll see. I like your suggestion that there may be some melding of ideas along the length of the elevated section.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 7:25 a.m. inappropriate
These are not the only promises Chopp is making.: According to an Eastside Candidate for representative, they have Chopp's assurance that he would support suing ( Paid for by the WEA) the State to fully fund education construction costs and school equalization as well. My question would be why hasn't he done this already? Democrat majorities in the House and the Senate and a Democratic Governor, why would we need to got through a lawsuit? Since we will not be tolling kids to pay for this ambitious program I guess Frank and Company are going to use a Court enforced Judgement against the State to force higher taxes or a State Income Tax. As taxpayers we should not trust anything Frank Chopp says . Right Deb?
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 7:45 a.m. inappropriate
3RD STORY PARK: "Can people at the south end actually see that there's a park 50 feet in the air, and easily get to it?"
Good story and good criticism. We don't like the viaduct so
make it bigger? has putting a park on top of I-5 been a ripping success? not that I am aware of.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 7:46 a.m. inappropriate
The "design community?": The "design community" does not give a rip about traffic capacity or mobility and never has. The "design community" is hereby invited to place its collective lips upon my nether parts.
We need a through highway, separated from grade, that maintains existing capacity and mobility, in this corridor. It is not only irresponsible, but bordering on insane, to pretend that we do not. If Frank's plan gets us there, I'm for it.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 8:10 a.m. inappropriate
Love it?: Frank Chopp has been telling everyone they're going to love his design.
Does anyone love this?
I hate it.
This is hugely disappointing. All this wheel spinning for something that would be more blight on the waterfront.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 9:50 a.m. inappropriate
I have to say...: ...I actually REALLY like this plan. As a Seattle transplant, one of the most awesome things that I've loved about this city is it's uniqueness to expose people to its natural and architectural beauty in some of the most unexpected ways.
I was disappointed to hear that so many people hate the viaduct - it is one of the things that help keep my sanity going to and from work, being stuck in traffic. I LOVE driving along the waterfront, seeing the City, the Olympics, the Water, the greenery, all in one breadth.
I think this plan beatifies an ugly, much needed replacement of the existing structure, and also makes it multi-functional. It addresses the need for a more pedestrian-friendly atmosphere along the waterfront, while preserving the uniqueness of this vehicle thoroughfare.
I actually think it's a great compromise for both ends of the argument. It disappoints me that so many people here are against any sort of compromise...if it's not exactly their way, then it's a horrible idea...disappointing!
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 1:34 p.m. inappropriate
Odd Beauty to it: It strike me that Chopp's plan is perfect–the creation of something big, expensive, perhaps a little silly, certainly a little over the top and containing elements that nobody wants. After years of haggling, pandering, lack luster political maneuvering, cronyism, electioneering, grandstanding, delays and cowardice, Chopp's Folly (as I'm sure it would be called–should I register that as a trade mark?) would be the perfect Seattle monument to the "Seattle Way"
Warm up the bulldozers and start mixing the cement–I love it!!
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 1:42 p.m. inappropriate
Precedents?: So Chopp's idea is a huge shopping mall with a freeway running through the middle of it. Interesting.
Setting aside the question of desirability for a moment, is there any precedent for something like this? I can't think of anywhere in the world that has a major highway routing cars and trucks through a commercial building at 50-60 mph. Perhaps no one has ever thought of it before. Or perhaps there are serious problems with this kind of design.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 2:10 p.m. inappropriate
And the money?: In the current financial climate where is the money coming from for this most-expensive solution? Design concerns aside, this option would appear to be unbuildable for the foreseeable future, as will the tunnel option.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 2:19 p.m. inappropriate
chopp's crime against the city: the current viaduct is simply put an urban design crime against the earth and humanity. in general we as a society have the pleasant illusion that we learn from our mistakes. chopp's proposal proves that we do not, that we have the ability, maybe desire, to repeat our biggest errors and make them worse. it is hardly worth listing the ways in which the viaduct is an assault on what should be one of the most beautiful urban waterfronts in the world. there appears to be nothing in this scheme that improves on the 1950s fecal matter that currently stinks up our city.
i will be the first in line to stand in front of the bulldozers and would recommend that the people of the city engage in a guerilla campaign to sabotage this idiotic scheme if it ever gets close to being built.
let's see: the viaduct is a hideous monstrosity separating the city from the water. oh my, lets build it bigger and uglier. i declare myself an urban designer and transportation planner. go frank!
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 2:33 p.m. inappropriate
Sorry giraf-I really like Franks idea, its the best!!!: I think Frank has a "Hit" on a design that has something for everyone. It will solve the thru put and congestion issues in the city. As for the two ground floors to be developed as commercial space all along the structure, this is another great idea.
The enclosed highway, three lanes in each direction is what West Seattle, Ballard and Communities north/south need now and in the future for jobs and mobility. Don't forget the Cruise ships are coming to Magnolia in 2009.
The big plus of Franks design is the park on the top with gorgeous sunset views of Elliott Bay, from the Pike Place Market to South King Street. This park will put Seattle on the map for a destination, and tourist will come from around the world for this view park. This park will keep the views we love and have now from the Viaduct.
Another important part of Frank's design is that SR-99 traffic will stay off surface streets and make Alaskan Way more pedestrian safe and friendly along with a lot less auto noise.
Franks idea works for the region, verses Seattle's Condo development plan, that will put a wall of condo's three times higher on the waterfront, with no parking, a tourist trap and views only for the wealthy owner's that live downtown.
Frank is doing the right thing for all the right reasons..
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 2:53 p.m. inappropriate
RE: I have to say...: You love the viaduct but think it's ugly and much in need of replacement? How do you reconcile the two opinions? Personally I think the idea of a large park removed from public view will create nothing but a gathering place for bums. The first Tent City with a waterfront and skyline view!
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 3:06 p.m. inappropriate
Incredible!: Frank Chopp's proposal accentuates the negatives and diminishes the possible positives of redoing Seattle's forever dismal waterfront. The State of Washington should send him to look at Chicago's now handsome lakefront. A much closer, less expensive trip would be to Portland's riverfront. Jerry Gropp Architect AIA
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 3:33 p.m. inappropriate
great idea: This viaduct issue has been a boondoggle precisely because no one has stepped forward and shown any vision or leadership. Rep. Chopp is using his considerable power to bring forward a plan that is compelling and visionary. Is it perfect? Nothing is, but it incorporates so many elements into such an interesting whole that we must take it seriously. I love the idea of a park that finally takes advantage of downtown's incredible views. And can you imagine Seattle's downtown known for something more than an ugly, decaying viaduct? This city has been stagnant for so long. We need something big and different and exciting. That's what Chopp's plan is. A politician finally stepped up to the plate.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 4:59 p.m. inappropriate
Another napkin gone to waste!: So, the ChoppChopp Strip Mall/Expressway was cooked up by Frank on a napkin years ago. Hello Seattle Times' John Hinterberger and the infamous Seattle Commons napkin-drawn debacle of the early 1990's. Amateur, wannabie architects, engineers, and planners that have part-time gigs in Olympia; please wipe yourselves with the nearest cocktail napkin and toss it into the nearest compost pile. Just fix the roads and get ready for life under I-985.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 5:33 p.m. inappropriate
"This is a massive project that will impact the lives of many Puget Sound residents. Proposals like this should be developed with transparency. This is the first time I've seen the proposal which directly impacts my district. During this time of economic crisis, we need to focus on what is financially feasible. This proposal will have to be carefully analyzed to make sure it represents the wishes of taxpayers."
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 5:56 p.m. inappropriate
The idea has promise: Consider the idea to go down town and enjoy the park in the spring and summer, watching the ferries go by, the sun set, THE FIRE WORKS.; all of these pros, along with the beauty of a more user friendly system. I say this with a heavy heart coming from one of the grandkids of a lead architect for the Viaduct. My grandfather admitted to me many years ago that in today's standards the current system had many flaws yet it met the needs of years gone by. He knew then what we know now. It is time to move on and this idea of Mr. Frank Chops is a solid one. Now let's move past the idea and on onto something our kids can use.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 8:27 p.m. inappropriate
RE: And the money?: dingdingdingdingdingdingding....Folks, we have a winner.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 8:41 p.m. inappropriate
It's got some merit: Chopp's plan actually has some merit but he goes too far i.e. a brand new Viaduct.
And as the many passionate but oddly-informed comments to this post suggest, we are not even remotely close to a financeable court-proof consensus.
Ergo: minimal fix-up/repair and we'll be back to discuss this issue in 15 years.
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 10:05 p.m. inappropriate
Straight outta Vegas!: The Chopster obviously partied too hard with some developers on a secret bender in Vegas, where the Choppway was likely dreamed up during a real powerful hallucination. Seriously... did he eat lsd while watching Escape from New York out of one eye and Rick Steves European travels through the other? WOW! CRAZY!
Posted Thu, Sep 25, 11:09 p.m. inappropriate
The current bad situation made worse: 1. Chopp is too late.
2. The solution explores the worst of all solutions and then covers it in ocular platitudes. A viaduct, a park up in the sky, a sink pipe in rain city, wrapped in retail shopping. Did he run out of crap to include?
3. What is the return on investment for the tax payer?
4. How about we just building a broad road, with a few (timed) stop lights, and crosswalks. Why does it have to be 40 feet in the air, or 150 feet under ground under the train tunnel?
5. The fact that Chopp has enough power to do something this elaborate, and stupid, is the most terrible detail of all.
Posted Fri, Sep 26, 10:35 a.m. inappropriate
RE: Precedents?: The precedent established here would lead to HOUSING as part of the re-development of existing ROW.
I'm not an architect, but frankly, the obiggest obstacle to combining roads and commercial buildings is narrow minds, like the above.
BTW, IFF the numbers are as folks indicate a tunnel should be built first (start at the bottom and work up) as part of a Downtown/Port funded replacement of the Seawall.
That should be done immediately, prior to taking down the existing viaduct.
Chopp's idea strikes me well, but it will take some time to cook - perhaps exactly the amount of time we have until such would be feasible.
-Douglas Tooley
Posted Fri, Sep 26, 12:24 p.m. inappropriate
I'm all for strong leadership on the transportation issue, believe me, but the opposite of the Seattle Process should not be total secrecy.
Posted Fri, Sep 26, 4:19 p.m. inappropriate
Chopp... get back to what you were actually *elected* to do. Stop playing engineer.: Chopp is micromanaging
Posted by: GreenSucks on Sep 25, 2008 9:30 AM
Chopp is making a mistake by pushing this.
95% of people do not like his idea. He is using his position to ram this through everyone's throats. He's wasting people's time with this. It will *never* happen. The City will fight tooth and nail to prevent something like this being resurrected. They *will* fight dirty.
Lastly, I believe Chopp is micro-managing by getting involved at such a detailed level. He is not an architect. He is not an engineer. He has a whole DOT working for him to dream up of reasonable and politically acceptable solutions. I can't believe any DOT would like an option like this. The only reason it hasn't been tossed on the heap with the retrofit is because it is the Speaker's option.
Chopp should stick to doing what he was elected to do: Run the House.
Posted Fri, Sep 26, 10:47 p.m. inappropriate
Interesting, some good, some questions: Overall, I think this is an interesting idea. I would like to see a 3D mockup of just how high it would be, and also see whether there could be more openings, the way he proposes for the street crossings. What comes to mind is La Defense in Paris, or some other buildings that are partly opened.
Whatever the solution for the viaduct, I hope it does the following:
1. provides for access to the downtown core in some way by cars.
2. facilitates buses and vans in some way
3. provides for a better waterfront experience
My concern about tunnels is 1 and 2 won't be easy to accomplish. One thing I like about the current viaduct is the easy on/off at Seneca and Columbia.
Posted Sat, Sep 27, 6:30 p.m. inappropriate
Something new, and maybe good: You're right, David; I hadn't heard of this before now. Surprisingly, it's the first proposed solution for the waterfront that actually sounds as thought it might work. None of the previous ideas have really seemed plausible, no matter what nice features they had; they never seemed to come to grips with the reality and the needs (not just of the neighborhood or the city, but of the entire region's travel network). I'm not sure that Frank Chopp's proposal is the answer, but it's at least intriguing. I'll have to go down and walk around near the waterfront and try imagining what it might be like if this got built.
Of course, how it gets designed and built and what it really looks and feels like will make all the difference in the world.
By the way, just who exactly did you mean when you referred to the "design community"?
Posted Sun, Sep 28, 12:06 p.m. inappropriate
Good IDEA - But DOA: I really like the CHOPPWAY idea, but anyone who has talked to a voter lately about the BAILOUT can well imagine how bond issues (let alone expectations of state or federal highway funds or ample private capital) for such a mega project will fare in the next, oh, decade or so of our economy? The debacle we are in - bailout, WAMU (and please add your own favorite supplemental aspect of this mess), is going to doom a lot of good ideas, including this one, because the probability that "we can find the money" is now much much smaller than anytime in the last 20-30 years. My guess is that the solution to the viaduct will be..nothing at all.
Posted Tue, Sep 30, 11:20 a.m. inappropriate
RE: I have to say...: dbreneman...
Yes, I love the viaduct. As I mentioned before, I love the views that it provides for the drive, the uniquness that it gives for tourists and locals like me who use the thoroughfare day in and day out - Views of downtown and the Puget Sound that you can't get for any long stretch of a drive anywhere else locally.
However, the viaduct in its current state is ugly because it is deteriorating and needs replacement. In fact, I wouldn't mind it it were replaced with a brand new version of the same structure.
Answer your question??
Posted Wed, Oct 1, 12:10 p.m. inappropriate
AWFUL IDEA: This is a horrible plan. The design is hideous. The massive structure would wall off the waterfront from the rest of downtown. There are obvious safety concerns in having vehicles travel at high rates of speed within an enclosed space intentionally designed to increase pedestrian traffic. Vapors and fumes from the vehicles could become trapped in the structure, sickening people, and fumes that are vented out of the top would pollute the park. An artificially elevated park will have a Disneyland feel to it and will not inspire any connection to nature or environmental stewardship. For all of the above reasons and hundreds more, this plan stinks. I hope it goes back into hiding, where it belongs.
Posted Wed, Oct 1, 2:31 p.m. inappropriate
RE: Precedents?: Here's one - its even local! Unbuilt of course, but eerily similar...what was Chopp doing in 1971?
Posted Thu, Oct 2, 12:52 p.m. inappropriate
Le Corbusier in Rio 1925: Le Corbusier wanted to build a CHOPPWAY in Rio de Janiero in the 1920s, only a six story one 300 feet high. Wonder how the echo of that project got up here 80 years later? (needless to say the Rio project was never built)
Posted Thu, Oct 2, 4:53 p.m. inappropriate
Make a difference... not a remark: Living outside of Seattle for most of my life, I have been an observer of the many political opinions of Seattleites and what problems officials choose to act on. Now that I am living here, I can honestly say that I can't stand it. Most of the posts I am seeing are frankly complaints about anything and everything someone proposes. When proper critiques are made they are ruined by random insults toward Frank Chopp or the writer of the previous post. We may not like his idea, but for goodness sakes he has been working on this for a year, which is way more than I can say about the rest of this city and state. The viaduct has been in the news for problems since I was in Elementary school (I know I am young). I feel as if Seattle ALWAYS feels like politicians are out to get them… maybe, instead of hating everyone for an idea that isn't perfect, we might try to look at what they're doing as an attempt to make our lives better. All I can say is stop bitching about something you don't like and start coming to a consensus. Making a point and talking down to Frank Chopp on this website isn't going make anyone understand what needs to be implemented in a new design. Working together is the only way the right change can be made.
Posted Mon, Dec 15, 10:02 a.m. inappropriate
http://www.scn.org/~bq490/AKMblog/Viaduct/index.htm