Maybe the Scouts need the money to pay to defend their right not to have to hire homosexuals to indoctrinate boys into that lifestyle.

Please don't use "Scouting" as a generic term. I've been a Girl Scout leader for years and shudder every time we get lumped together with the Boy Scouts under "Scouting." We have very substantive differences in how we treat our scouts, what we teach them and where we would like them to be after they leave Girl Scouts. And we're not just cookie sellers. Look at the list of today's strong women in politics, science, journalism and other disciplines and you'll see a lot of grown up Girl Scouts. OK, I'll stop cheerleading.

If you read the article, you'd know they need all that money to pay salaries for council executives that are well beyond the averages for non-profit organizations.

I was a Scout in the early 80s when the push to move out long-term volunteers in those positions started. The goal was to "Professionalize Scouting". The guy we got was a self-aggrandizing moron more concerned about remodeling each pack and troop to his own personal idea of "how things should be" than what was good for the organization. Women who were pack leaders were asked to step aside in favor of men, often chosen by this guy from areas outside where the pack was located. The one woman troop leader, who held the troop together by her sheer force of will when no men would step up, was told to step aside.

People who were focused on the experience more than grinding out merit badges and Eagle Scouts were asked to leave. When they refused, malcontents were recruited to say untrue things to push them out.

Was the lesson I learned to avoid Scouts?

Nope. This nonsense was how I learned the value of community organizing, how great organizations can be damaged when good people don't step up, and the power created when good people say 'no' to bad ideas even (especially) when they come from people in power. I was 14.

We turned back most of the nonsense. Women pack leaders were allowed, the troop with a woman leader ended up having two great adult leaders when a father in the area stepped up to volunteer more time on the condition she was allowed to stay leader. The merit badge thing was always a pain in the neck, but no troop leader was replaced because they had a different idea of what Scouting's purpose was.

Had more people done what we did, perhaps Scouting wouldn't be the anti-gay, harmful logging, executive-enriching organization it is today. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, CampFire, Boys & Girls Clubs, and etc. are not places where parents can dump their kids for free babysitting hoping they'll pick something worthwhile up along the way. They are organizations who only serve the public good when parents and children participate together, ensuring the organization doesn't go off the rails and reflect values that are counter to its public face.

It's obvious that Knute did not have a good experience with Scouting. My experience (from another area of the country) was significantly different. I understand that the 'head' of the Boy Scouts is very different than the experiences I had within my own troop. Our leaders were caring and sensitive men who took the time to help us to not only learn the skills of the scouting programs but also how to grow from young boys into men. As with many things I guess it comes down to the individuals you interact with and what they bring to the situation. It seems like there is a 'real' article in this blog post but this isn't it, too much personal attitude and not enough reporting. The future of 'journalism' is looking dark for sure, where do the editors go to die?

Mr. Berger: No, sir, you are a fraud, masquerading as a "journalist". More like a propagandist. If you had one ounce of intellectual curiosity or journalistic acumen, you would not simply take everything Hearst/the PI writers post as "truth". The series cites Philmont Boys Ranch as one example of "chainsaw madness" (as you imply). They logged more than 10,000 acres over 18 years, yes -- but out of 135,000 acres -- less than 0.5 percent of the land each year. This is more of an ongoing agenda.

Robert McClure of the PI has shamelessly attacked the timber industry for years, often ignoring realities and drawing on isolated incidents to castigate everyone and everything in the industry. In the same way you assert scouting is "a fraud" because the hundreds of thousands of people (perhaps millions) who have served and benefited from scouting don't all bow down to your altar of paganism, if-it-feels-good-do-it, anything-goes, humans-are-a-blight-on-the-earth political correctness.

Forgive me, I am way too harsh. But you, sir need a healthy dose of common sense.

I have no first hand experience of scouting in the 70s or 80s when I was growing up. However, I knew some boys who were in boy scouts and I think they got a lot out of it. One of the members has gone onto a career in outdoors recreation and has written a very well received book. I'm not sure he would have done that without his start in scouting.

Cub scouts in the past few years has been a very positive experience for my son. I assisted as a parent volunteer in a day camp for cub scouts last summer and it was a positive, enriching experience for all the boys. Everyone had a lot of fun and got to try some new things like archery, slingshots, "gold panning" (for pebbles painted gold) and lots more.

So, I can't speak from first hand experience about boy scouts today, just cub scouts, but I went to the Eagle award ceremony for a family friend a few years ago and definitely I think he would say scouting was a good experience.

The logging story is disturbing though.

Come on. So your afraid of chainsaws? What kind of Mossback are U? The whole freakn post-millenial post-spotted-owl economy comes crashing down in flames and here you and Heasrt go investing valuable column inches picking fights with the Boy Scouts? Jeesh. I'm no history prof., but from what I've read about all his ballyhooing rough riding activities, Teddy Roosevelt would NOT approve.

And what happened to LEAVE NO CHILD INSIDE?

Lots of good comments above, but ddmiller's nails a really important point: parents need to participate with their children in these type of groups to make them work. They are not just babysitting. Scouts does open some doors, literally: the cub scout troup got to tour KUOW studios, a police station, fire station and more which individual 6 or 8 year olds would not be able to see. And the parent child interaction tends to be very positive, as in working together to accomplish something, like this year creating a pinewood derby car that will actually make it all the way down the track without stopping because I didn't get the nails / axles right :) This is a much better interaction than I have seen so far at the typical "run faster, jump higher, kick harder, yell yell yell" at most youth sports.

The modern Boy Scouts is an organization essentially run by evangelical Christians and Mormons, and as such it has become a right-wing indoctrination machine that has little to do with its original mission. It has nothing to do with the Scouting that you and I remember from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Its irrational, old-fashioned, and hysterical fear of gay people is driving the organization into the ground financially, which means they can no longer be trusted as stewards of the environment or as conservationists. Donations are down, legal costs are up, freebies are drying up, and they need money, which they are now reaping from their "conservation" landholdings.

I remember a different organization than the one I see out there now. It's too bad, too, because when you look at the Girl Scouts and scouting in other countries you see what the Boy Scouts of American *could* have been in the 1990s and 2000s. "Morally straight" indeed...

kudos to ddmiller.
Knute, you are being closed minded on this one which is too bad.

Are there LDS troops and Fundamentalist troops, you bet. Are there non-secular Seattle troops and Buddhist troops in the south end, yep. Is there tension within the organization because of this diversity, yes but it is healthy. Do more left leaning scouts worry that the orgnization is going to be dominated by fundamentalism; absolutely.

Have scouts drifted from their roots, yes in some cases, absolutely not in others. If everyone walks away then the many good aspects of the tradition will be lost and it will be owned by the groups that remain. There is a lot of good that has been provided directly and indirectly by scouting in this community. Next time you enjoy a hike in the Alpine Wilderness area, thank scouting as a key contributor to this effort (ask Sen Dan Evans if you don't believe me). Scouting like any 100 year old large organization, has many issues, but to treat it as a single monolithic organism is overly simplistic.

ps: If the bit on Philmont is an example of the factual quality of the article, it is pretty low, i have hiked Philmont from one end to the other. Yes, there has been a small amount of selective logging (thinning), primarily to reduce fire danger and some harvesting after a fire burned thru the northern section of the ranch.

You are full of it, Knute.

I had great experiences with scouting as a youth. Our troop was outdoor skills oriented. The scoutmaster, Mr McLane, taught woods skills and spent all his vacation time with us taking serious hikes, like a 50 miler around Mt Ranier I'll never forget.
Scouting is so big, a skeptic can surely find some things wrong, but scouting to me was all its advertised.

And what this anti-logging BS? Did they replant? Last I checked (today), it was legal. Tommorrow when I'm running shovel I'll grab an extra one just for you.

You have inspired me!

First off, I was very disappointed to read the level of vitriol and bigotry in the comments to Knute's column.

I was active in Scouts in the Seattle area for 10 years and achieved Eagle Scout. We spent at least one weekend each month and two weeks each summer in the wilderness. During my tenure, we hiked nearly every mile of the Pacific Crest Trail, climbed Mt St Helens (pre eruption) multiple times and canoed the Bowron Lakes in BC. I learned how to survive in wilderness, resuscitate another human being and help the less fortunate.

While in the wilderness, we were taught to be good stewards of the forest; pack out more than you pack in and leave your camp site in better condition than you found it.

I don't see selling private lands to developers or clearcutting trees on private property as a conflict to what we were taught. The Boy Scouts does not advocate extreme environmentalism.

This article implies that the Boy Scouts teach one thing and do another. That was not my experience.

Geez, Mossback, I'm sorry you had such a lousy experience in scouting. I know people who don't remember Little League or high school with much affection, either. Should we issue a blanket indictment for those things as well?

My 11-year old is a scout,learning about knot tying, conservation, first aid, archery, teamwork, whittling, and teamwork. Nothing about Fundamentalism, no lectures about the evils of homosexuality,no scoutmasters pretending that they're George Patton. Get out of your bubble, Seattle liberals.

sounds like Knute wants to be ACTIVE in the BOY Scouts.
He bemoans the fact that potential butt poking is discouraged and HIS type role models are banned.
So sad he cannot MINGLE with the BOY Scouts.
Boy Scouts ARE a conservative morals-based group...ALWAYS has been.
Prove otherwise.
Look at the Principles Scouting is based on. Forest Management, Ethical character and more that Knute is unable to CONNECT with.
Thank God for the Boy Scouts as they are and were.
BTW: I own 4 chain saws, was a Scoutmaster for 9 years and fully support the Boy Scouts as they are and were...not as what they can become under the guidance of Knute.
ps: I also heat with a (gasp) WOOD STOVE!!!