Cannot say them?

Odd...I say them all the time.

The Piper

ah the days, the 100 years of it that seattelites could dump all their crap into lake washington... look at it from dale carnegie's point of view: it made great landfill between husky stadium and university village shopping emporium, then the city capped all the stuff with dirt, sowed some prairie grass, planted trees... stuck some pipes in to relieve the intestinal gas that was combusting down there... yet occasionally there's a methane explosion and a hundred or so raccoons are blown to smithereens!

I'd like to tell you that the photo with the shiba being walked is crooked, but niceness won't allow me.

I like a lot about Bellevue, meaning the dense and diverse parts. Of course I bike there.

As for dogs, any leash over 6' is a "finish line" primed to run through.

Skip, you absolutely nailed it. One of your best.

Has Mossback been using Moss-out? Oh wait, you can't use herbicides in Seattle either...

Great, another Uptight Seattleite column... Without the funny.

Ouch, I am not usually known for being overly PC but as a woman with MS who is dependent on her Goldendoodle service dog to navigate safely outside of the house, this one hurts. Believe me she is not welcome lots of places, regardless of the FEDERAL law, (not city). I am tremendously grateful for the places and people that allow us to shop for our own groceries or heaven forbid actually attend a Seattle event like "How to recycle from your bicycle"

Pretty amusing -- putting on the anti-PC shtick is certainly a well-worn path. It's quite a trick though to maintain the rebel stance when rebelliousness itself is so accepted and celebrated. In that case is conforming (in this case to the PC culture) the real rebellion?

Wow. I've lived here 13 years, and this is one of the only pieces I've seen originate here which I can completely sympathize with. Excellent and well done. I was a moderate Libertarian from Eastern Washington...but since living in Seattle, I've been typed an extremist conservative Republican by anybody I dare engage in meaningful discussion. As long as I tow the liberal line, bash Bush, mock Bellevue and/or Yakima, profess to everything green and acknowledge white males are the secular moral equivalent of anti-christs, the conversations hum along swimmingly. But dare bring up a counter point and the blinders/walls go up and insults fly. For a city which prides itself on its education and highly "over" touted ranking as most well "read" city... it's always struck me as peculiar that it was so intolerant and narrow-minded. Again, very nice piece. I can now venture out today and drink my double-tall non-fat no-whip mocha with a smile on my face. :)

I thought this may be a humor column, but obviously is strict, deep political analysis.

Seattle is soooooo polite, and sooooo tolerant, unless you express an "unacceptable" or provocative, or alternative position.

Then, make sure you are not standing downwind, so the stuff they throw doesn't hit ya.

Geezer OUT!!

Biased and Bogus, I have lived here for 43 years and do not agree. I hear the NY Times and Boston Globe are hiring.......

Well, that’s a good start on describing Seattle’s cultural conformity, our smugness and superiority in the guise of liberalism. Probably only Berkeley and Boulder are worse at making it known how everyone should think and behave. That should be a warning to us. As a downtown built on bloated and unsustainable financial and business services declines, the dominance of the UW and its satellite institutions will become yet more overweening. I ought to know. I’ve been a professor there for 50 years, and my students will attest that I rarely hesitated to tell them what’s what.

But since my 54 years here is longer than probably 95 percent of Seattleites have been here, I claim rights of precedence, and remain a skeptic, often an opponent, of Seattle’s endless striving to become New York By and By. You young readers may not know that “progress” once demanded the burning of all those unsightly floating hippie slums (a.k.a houseboats), and the razing of that obsolete and dirty Pike Place Market—at least when the houseboats were $3000 instead of $300000,and the Market served poor downtown residents. What similar projects do our leaders have in mind for Seattle to become that “glorious emerald city”?

1. Recycling. Good, but don’t ask too closely about costs and the proportions that are truly recycled.
2, Bellevue IS pretty cool. While Seattle has been exporting its “diversity” (poor, minorities, foreign born) to south King county, Bellevue has become a rival core!
3. Over for dinner? Ha, so true, although we may meet neighbors at a coffee bar, or while walking our dogs, or jogging.
4. Biking versus driving. I brazenly plead guilty to this sin, but so I guess should 75 percent of Seattleites.
5 Dogs everywhere. This is quite a recent phenomenon, so maybe there is a chance to arrest it.
6. Republicans. There’s one in my block! Actually, I’m a 1940s-1950s Democrat. I suspect at least one-quarter of Seattle voters have the values and beliefs of the 1950s Republican of Seattle- the Dan Evans and John Miller era.

We might add the compulsory belief in trains as the evident high point in western civilization. Then there is the requirement to shop “locally” at farmer’s markets. No one would admit to going to Safeway or Fred Meyer, except they are often full. One couldn’t own or use a power mower, but it’s OK to hire a yard service with noisy mowers and leaf blowers.

But be cool! We probably aren’t any more hypocritical than folks anywhere. And despite our often infuriating process and would be rulers dictates, Seattle muddles through,
PS I guess I’m a kind of libertarian socialist. Seattle is not nearly as tolerant as it would like others to believe, nor is I very socialist (despite City Light and City Water), but at least we try along the edges.
Dick Morrill

Recycling didn't used to be a hassle until this year--now you have to manage food scraps in your kitchen in some kind of sanitary way that most kitchens really aren't designed to do.

Bellevue isn't cool. Think about what "cool" means. Bellevue is nice, pleasant, clean, it has great schools...I can think of a hundred positive things to say about it. But, I'm sorry, "cool" is not something that Bellevue can be.

In my neighborhood, neighborly barbecues and dinners are quite common. The Seattle niceness thing may well be Scandinavian/Japanese reticence (fyi it's not Asian...Chinese culture is not reticent), but more often than not I think people who get the cold shoulder about dinner (or whatever) are actually a&&holes; who people are too nice to ignore the rest of the time. (And your needy friend must surely have gone over the edge to *actually* get dumped...think about it...)

Biking sucks in Seattle. Few good bike paths, too many hills. There's a reason the Dutch bike a lot and the Swiss do not...

As for dogs, for the love of God, will the anti-dog crowd just please move to New York or something. In the Pacific Northwest dogs have always played an important role in family life. It's only been since the 1970s that laws started restricting doggitude, and that's started easing back up again recently. Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Vancouver...these are all dog-friendly towns. It's a deeply PNW thing and has been--I'm a fourth-generation Seattleite, and I can easily document the illustrious history of dogs in Seattle for anyone who is under the mistaken impression that dog friendliness here is new.

Republicans: well, even the very pleasant Bellevue is trending Democratic. Reichert won by the skin of his pants last time; I think his days are numbered. It's not taboo to admit you're Republican, anyway; it's merely exotic.

I have to say that while I recognised several points in the article, I disagree with the prejudice part. I find Seattle to be one of the most accepting cities for subcultures. People of religious diversity, sexual diversity or entertainment diversity can live their lives and raise their children without fear of being singled out, hunted down or ostracised. I have lived in Seattle for 35 years. I have worked for several of our home-grown financial giants and home-schooled my daughter, all while living openly as a pagan, polyamorous and kinky unwed woman. I don't believe that I could have done that as easily anywhere else as I have done here in Seattle.

you forgot "Do you want to go to Tacoma?"
If you ask a Seattlite that you might as well ask them to hop on a plane to Baghdad. They think they are going to be shot as soon as they get there which is funny because the opposite is more likely.

It figures that this one didn't show up: "I'm taking my daughters out shooting this weekend. Would your family like to go along for some safety training and a little fun?"

By the way, the Lake Hills / Crossroads area really has little in common with the McMansion and bigger is better parts of Bellevue.

riverworld

Hey, John Carlson can read, and then rip you off anduse you as radio filled.

Piper - This article is about Seattle. Last I heard, you lived in the unincorporated area around Woodinville.

Knute - everything is right on except for number 5 about dogs. Seattle is not a dog friendly city. It's nearly impossible to let your dog run around here without driving 20 minutes to a dog park or facing the possibility of a steep fine. Compare this to Vancouver, where dogs are allowed offleash in most parks between certain hours. Sure, you can bring your dog into stores and work, but when it comes to things that dogs actually need and enjoy, such as chasing a ball in an open field, forget it.

Eat your heart out Jean Godden.

Piper-you still supporting Bush and denying he used torture?

Move along folks-nothing interesting here.

Seattle is not the diverse place it claims to be. Conservative thought is not allowed. You have more political freedom to be whatever you want to be on the Eastside, quite frankly. We have a more diverse mix of politics.

How is the Eastside vs. Westside working out for everybody?

@smacgry

"... but more often than not I think people who get the cold shoulder about dinner (or whatever) are actually a&&holes; who people are too nice to ignore the rest of the time. (And your needy friend must surely have gone over the edge to *actually* get dumped...think about it...)"

It's nice to see that the "blame the victim" mentality is also alive and well in Seattle.

@riverworld

Hey, what range do you go to?

On the dogs thing, I sure miss being able to take the golden into Home Depot and Lowes... :(

Nice slam on Bellevue. I grew up there, but left before they ruined it. It used to be sweet, as did Kirkland. Why is it necessary to overpopulate, overbuild, and overpave nearly everything on the "eastside"?

Apparently you can't say "hello" and expect any kind of response because Seattle natives have perfected the icy art of looking right through you as if you're not really there, and if you dare to speak or smile, they usually pretend not to hear. If you pay a complement, you'll get back a polite half smile or more likely silence while they pretend not to hear you. It's boring and lonely the way people are here. Get over your self-indulgent selves.

Also, it's nice that dogs are so popular here and welcomed, but what is up with all the pit bulls?! Why are they so acceptable out in public? I don't get that.

As a longtime uber-liberal Democrat I've got a thing you're never allowed to say in Seattle that Knute overlooked:

I own a gun.

Try it sometime if you want to hear pins drop.

These seem like Fremont quirks applied to the whole city.

There's little difference between Seattle and Bellevue. There used to be. Not anymore. If so many people in Seattle really have attitude about Bellevue, why are so many people who live in Seattle going to work there every day? I'd say the observation is out of date. It is still possible to be a Republican and get elected in Bellevue, but barely so.

The car hating thing also reflects the views of an extremely narrow slice of the city. Been to Rainier Beach? Georgetown? West Seattle? Seattle was built on the car. It has densities lower than Los Angeles. The car/hydroplane/airplane thing is huge here. There is a noticable subculture of people dressed in loud bike clothes. The Viaduct debate wasn't about bikes.

LA is actually pretty dense by US standards (though not in a way that makes it walkable or transit friendly). Not just the city of LA, but most of its suburbs, which tend to be the "small lot" variety. By contrast, New York's suburbs start dense close-in, but 20, 50, and even 80 miles away they have a lot of large lots mixed with the satellite towns. If you want low inner-city density, Portland's average is way below Seattle's or LA's, oddly enough.

What's this thing about weight loss? If that is not a chubby face on Knutes pic I don't know what is. Just because he hides behind hair doesn't mean he is skinny or exercising. Come on Knute take a hike!

Just say NO to the Deep-bore Tunnel. Here's why: Without access to Ballard-bound traffic, it puts about 40,000 vehicles daily onto the new Alaskan Way. That's about 2500 "per hour" bumper-to-bumber through the 15-20 stoplights. This amount of traffic is too much for even the 6 lane option for Alaskan Way. Probably 1000 of these 'per hour' vehicles will take Westlake and Mercer to access the Deep-bore tunnel at Aurora. The remaining 1500 'per hour' will make the new Alaskan Way a barely manageable nightmare.

The better tunnel option is the 4-lane Cut-n-Cover. It can be built with the AWV in place up until the last year or so for constructing the Lower Belltown segment. Capacity is sufficient with a speed limit of 40mph, a good idea with any tunnel and way faster than surface routes. Crosscut directors should consider the advantages of the 4-lane Cut-n-Cover option. It's not too late. The Deep-bore tunnel will ruin the Waterfront with traffic. Oh well, Seattle is ruined everywhere else with traffic. Might as well ruin the Waterfront too.

Ah, yes. Dow Constantine slams Susan Hutchison, calling her a conservative Republican.

That's about half of Aurora's peak traffic around Shoreline, which is similar width though fewer lights.

Although I do love recycling and hate Bellevue -- I own three cars, know all my neighbors (and have had them over for a BBQ) and I tell everyone I am a Republican. Also, I pick up my dog's crap.

I would rather move than bitch and complain about where I live.

Mr. Yett is the quintessential Seattlelite. While he nominally favors 'freedom of speech', he'd much prefer slamming other people's opinion by asking them to move. Probably better than extermination under the Third Reich, but a specifically Seattle response. Don't engage the issue, wish the issue disappears, if not, wish the person disappears.

Ultimately, Seattle, up and down the demographic chain, is a mixture of repressed anger and conservatism under the veneer of civilized dialogue, with a very large helping of incompetence (while Seattlelites are certainly well read, they're quite incompetent, ranging from government to business -- eg Microsoft which is quite the laughing stock of the serious software industry).

Introversion, lack of sophistication, asocial tendencies...these all pale next to the smugness that is unique to this provincial community.

Skip-
Spot on! Being a native Seattlelite has it's advantages.
When people whine, I just say "I'm a native" and this is how it is here.
I have been recycling, carrying my own reusable grocery bags,growing my own vegetables, canning those vegetables for many years. I am 48 years old and haven't driven a car in 30 years (I am not a good driver, Take note).
I walk my dog for 2 hours a day and my husband takes her to the dog park for an hour each day.
I avoid the Eastside, North of Edmonds (don't consider Shoreline a separate entity) and go anywhere South of West Seattle.
I am also part Native American that grew up in Ballard.
I am Seattle.Love ya',Skip!
Brenda

And now a brief pause so all the liberal readers can say "You bet it does, you fascist!"

Hey Bubbleator:

The reason people get quiet when they hear you own a gun is that they're scared. For them and, more urgently, for you. Because the fact that you own a gun means that you're statistically WAY more likely to kill somebody (most likely yourself, since the stats show that the owner of the gun is the most likely victim of his gun)

So good luck with that. And keep your killing machine unloaded and locked up, okay?

Olaf is perhaps unaware that, statistically, the people most likely to being carrying guns are the police, and that this part of the country which espouses personal freedoms doesn't really care about human life. Witness the multiple bullets (King County Police) used to kill an unarmed man, without any record, last week in Everett.

Now we will soon have the native Seattlelites with their statements about how this guy's life was not worth living, and how great the SPD/KCP are. A queer part of the country, indeed.

A great taboo: anything critical of a local indian tribe. Whether questioning the effects their gill nets have on our "endangered species", their exemptions from taxes and laws that the rest of us labor under, or their heavy lobbying of our "sovereign" government.

Hey Bluelight-

Read some history before you start whining about the Native Americans.
Europeans are not indigenous to this continent and the native tribes deserve much for the abuse and attempted genocide of a people.
I hope they continue to build casinos and get all they can from this country.
Don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins.

Seattle people take everything way too seriously. It is not fun to live there or socialize with the people; they don't know how to laugh or enjoy themselves and they don't know how or don't care to make good honest friends that they can call on the phone and have dinner or just hang out with. It is an uptight, lonely, anti-social, and depressing culture. The Seattle people love to criticize Southern Californians for being superficial or money-oriented, but the fact is Southern Californians are way ahead of Seattleites in terms of knowing how to make and keep friends. It is a vicious cycle in Seattle and it is a cultural sickness; the anti-social mentality breeds depression which breeds resentment towards other people which in turn escalates the antisocial mentality.

See what I mean? Queenmom, ladies and gentleman, an example of the short-sighted, politically-correct, lock-step crowd that will drive us to bankruptcy and/or civil war.

Here's another one - "We're driving down to Portland for the weekend."

Georgetown is the 1st place I've ever lived in Seattle that went against the "Seattle Attitude" stereotype. People are all super friendly, say hello to you on the street, neighbors have parties more often with one another than not, and a lot of the small business owners here actually live in Georgetown as well, and have a vested interest in the community. Plus, its racially/socially/economically diverse. I think 99% of what you've talked about to could be pinned to Capitol Hill/Downtown areas. The South End in general is like living in a whole different city, but without the commute.

Stop, please! Enough: I have thrown off my blue tarp, and will weigh in. I have lived in Seattle since 1960 and have seen a good deal more than most of the contributors to this conversation;suffice it to say that there is no longer a 'native' Seattle complex of responses to the issues raised in this farce. Like me, virtually everyone in this town is a transplant, each with a complaint about this or that, and how it was was much better in his/her home-town - most especially in the area of morals, e.g., driving etiquette. Deluded ones, look into your mirrors: you are the objects of your own rants.

Nordicelt: you are the poster child for Seattle, truly. If you can say 'virtually everyone in this town is a transplant', then your self-absorption has not limits. Why don't you test your outlandish hypothesis by looking at the City Council. Morals and driving etiquette are not the focus of most threads. It is the self-congratulatory hypocrisy that is Seattle that is repellent to anyone who has come from a civilized environment. Yes, many third world countries are cleaner, friendlier, and exhilarating as experiences. Yes, Seattle is an urban in-grown toenail.

Virtually everyone is a transplant? I think it's more like half. Personally I was born here.

I don't want to be harsh, but so-called "liberal" attitudes are the norm in almost all American cities. Atlanta, Miami, New York, Los Angeles, seriously, if you stand up and say "I think that Sarah is great, you betcha!" you're going to be laughed at. I'm a moderate, and I spend time on university campuses, and I've gotten used to having to have well-reasoned arguments for my moderate and at times conservative opinions.

Creative, educated people tend to be liberal. Seriously, it's a fact of life.

Creative, educated people tend to be liberal. Do you have statistical figures for this 'fact of life'? Of course not -- thinking rigorously and using empirical evidence as support for hypotheses is totally alien to the way of life in Seattle. Far better to emote, congratulate each other on their imagined superiorities, and go read about life elsewhere. Hanging around university campuses is not perhaps the optimal way to get an education. These observations are pure tosh, typical of Seattle's flaccid mental capabilities and enervation.

SAT scores and income levels show clear correlation to presidential votes at the per-state level.

mhays is also waiting in line for an education. What do SAT scores and income levels have to do with 'creative, educated people'? Seattle strikes again!

Wow, Olaf, I could hardly have done a better job proving my point. Thanks!

TomL, thanks for being here...what would we do without the only smart person in the world telling the rest of us how stupid we are? If you have a newsletter, please sign me up!

i've lived all over the country. well i've been in Seattle since 1995. i've lived from Tacoma to Everett. i can sum up cities with on e word for each city: Tacoma - dirty, Seattle - pretentious, and Everett - scummy. here in Seattle most people are stuck up and over opinionated with no real life experience to back it up. going to Europe doesn't count if you did not pay for it yourself, the same goes for schooling. i'm a blue collar, GED having regular guy. it shocks me how i'm more informed than most of my college educated peers. things i consider to be common knowledge are earth moving to some and it is a sign of the times. i won't group everyone into one group though. it's like a hardcore punk band from Milwuakee said back in the early 90's. "Everywhere you go all scenes are the same, some people are cool some people are lame."

Seattle is OK and Seattlelites are OK too. It's just that there are too many of them, proportionally that is. It looks to me like the dog in the photo would rather be in Bellevue than be dragged around Green Lake by the neck; even if he/she is walking down hill.

Seattle is great. The people are tolerable but not too smart.

It's a little rough being a Republican female business owner with a big SUV, but who wants to live in Kansas?

Hate Bellevue, but there are mountains out past there for skiing and hiking!

Dragonfly50

Love that I sense a bit of self-loathing there Skip.

Cheers!

Diana