The city has already spent tens of millions on improvements to Pioneer Square over the years. The problem isn't with the retailers but with the neighborhood itself. Unless the Main Street grants can get the homeless out of Occidental Park and the drug dealers off the streets and the gang bangers out of the dance clubs the money they are spending is not going to go very far.

Pioneer Square has every advantage that it could have. It is close to major tourist attractions. It has wonderful architecture and a great pedestrian promenade. But it is also in the shadow of the Morrison and the DESC. It is the city's highest concentration of beds for the homeless. It isn't a place that people feel comfortable or safe after dark.

The idea of recreating Pioneer Square as a neighborhood that primarily serves the people that live there is the best hope for revitalization. But the current park bench denizens of Occidental Park are going to be a major barrier to improvement as they have been since Yesler was skidding logs to his mill.

Bring back the George Benson Streetcar.
Repair and staff the bathrooms under the pergola.

(I'll sound like I work for a general contractor, which I do, but I'll say it anyway...)

Pioneer Square's biggest need is more people (working or otherwise not drunks), not just at peak times but all the time. Most of all, that means more residents. Plenty of people would love to live close to work, and I have no doubt that housing would be popular...some people aren't as noise sensitive as the rest of us, and even now some apartments are in quieter spots than others.

At the same time, to be consistent I'll note that I've always seen Pioneer Square as an appropriate nightlife area where at least the central part of First Avenue ought to allow noise. With a few areas like this, the rest of Greater Downtown can have noise laws enforced.

Just one block up the hill from Pioneer Square sits the King County Courthouse, with its verdant sprawling green lawn and mature shade trees -a wonderful urban oasis at one time. Today, it is a giant crash pad for homeless street folks and drunks sleeping off their binges. On any given day, watch a female attorney leave the courthouse and walk through the fetid sea of humanity to her car in one of the nearby parking areas: you will see her clutching the little can of pepper spray on her key-chain - just in case.

There is a brick wall with architectural flourishes from the turn of the century that runs along the south end of the area. About seven years ago, some driver plowed through the east end of the wall and knocked over the bricks. Rather than repairing the wall, the mess was cleaned up and the broken wall sat there with a huge gap for years - through more than one mayoral administration. Recently, instead of fixing the hole in the wall, it was surrounded by chain link fencing. Nice.

There used to be a sign on the wall, "No Camping", which was rountinely ignored and never enforced by law enforcement. The sign is now gone, but the bums, the drug addicts, the drunks, and the down-on-their-luck continue to camp out along the wall, as well as under the 4th Street viaduct and the grassy area.

The stairs up from the wall to Yessler Way are used 24/7 by street people for urination and defocation. Flies are ever-present and the stench is overwhelming, especially during the warmth of a summer day. The stairs are eroding and have salty stains from the years of being urine-soaked. The steel stair edges are corroded and rusted from urine. Every morning, around 7 am, a crew of city workers arrives with a hose and hoses down the stairs and the sidewalk along 4th Street and under the viaduct. But in no time at all, the bums are using it as a public latrine again. Our tax dollars at work.

As night falls, the crowd that has hung out and slept all day, makes its way down the block to Pioneer Square, where the tourists and bar-hopping colege kids are generous, and fortified wine and malt liquor is cheap. On a foggy First Thursday night, you won't see many women brave enough to walk the gauntlet of bums and aggressive panhandlers hanging around Occidental Park to check out the art galleries.

This is our city folks. Our leaders have allowed this area to slide into the sewer over the years. And we keep re-electing them.

I think mhays hit the nail on the head. It's all about residents. Until there are enough people living down there to take a vested interest, it will be difficult to sustain a change. People dont like to Sh%* where they sleep. Ive been living down there for over 3 years now and the good news is there are more and more of us coming in who are willing to do some leg work to change the neighborhood.

The First Hill Street Car project should've been an extension of the Benson Waterfront Street car. Unfortunately both the First Hill and South Lake Union Streetcar routes weren't fully thought out in a larger transportation context.

Lack of a quality proposal can also be said for the other current activity on the Waterfront, the viaduct. It isn't Nimbyism to oppose a bad design that isn't paid for. It is just bad design, and leadership.

Ah yes... we've got a great plan to clean up Pioneer Square. Where have I heard that before... Oh that's right 1976, 1982, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2010. Yay. Sean,mhays, seattle obseve have it right. Clean up the area.

Trolley advocates have long claimed streetcar lines are ways to build the economy of a neighborhood. OK... Bring back and extend the Benson Trolley.

Extend it NORTH through Myrtle Edwards Park to Pier 91 and take advantage of the 10 year lease for Holland America, Princess, and Carnival to bring about a half million transits to the Pier. Stops could include the Amgen Campus and Sculpture Park - its original design HAD a Benson Trolley stop. Then run it as far south along the water as Seawall and Viaduct reconstruction allow.

At the same time add track SOUTH south on 5th with stops at Union Station and and then add 3 more blocks of track south on 5th. Put a stop just before Dearborn, then cross it, and head down Airport Way South to the existing METRO yard, filled with electric trackless trolleys. There may be some shared maintenance opportunities there, and there you build a temporary trolley barn. Perhaps we could renovate the old Interurban building and use it as the Pioneer Square Trolley Barn. I was built for the Interurban, how much more authentic can you get?

With a bigger vision, you could sent a spur onto the Metro property, and continue the line westbound on Edgar Martinez Way, cross 4th with the light, and have a station at Safeco Field/Ex Hall, then run up Occidental with another stop at Qwest North end. Then back to the main line…

When whatever Viaduct project begins to finally happen, cut the line and run them independantly until they can be reconnected. Of course this also means building a second temporary barn at the NORTH end of the line… under the Magnolia Viaduct, or behind the Grain Pier on port land. (the line had a temp barn its entire previous life!).

Once the Viaduct issue is resolved, connect the two, and tear down one barn. We have already PAID for this ROW, rails and equipment, and now we are paying to STORE it. Lets USE IT and help the Square get some business.

Pioneer Square's problems come down to a few key issues that Main Street can't fix: drugs, lack of City revenue, and a "look-the-other-way" attitude by City Officials and SPD Higher-ups.

Drug possession and intent to sell laws have changed recently to the benefit of the drug dealers. One example specifies it now takes 9 arrests of an individual before actual prosecution can occur. Why? No money to prosecute and no jail space. These drug thugs play these laws to the fullest extent to the frustration of the front-line Police Officers. They are arrested over and over only to return within 24 hours and begin selling again. Who do they sell to? Homeless folks spending their DESC checks. The 1st and the 15th down here is a circus.

While the homeless situation isn't "pretty" or "festive", it needs to be accepted as an intergal part of Pioneer Square. Some of these Missions and shelters have been down here for countless years and are not going away. If a human services organization is well run and well funded, it can be a positive entity in the community. Organizations that are under funded and allowed to run will-nilly do harm to everyone: the people they are supposed to be serving and the community.

Lastly, the City is shooting itself in the foot by allowing the current conditions to prevail down here, or any other part of the City for that matter. A bad reputation lowers business and recreational activity: lowers tax revenue. Vacant retail shops only adds to the stigma of a troubled area. If the City truly understood that by making an atmosphere of a safe, comfortable, and interesting destination to shop and visit, it would also make money.

I'd invite anyone to try being homeless in Seattle--and I mean truly homeless, without a place to go during the day--and figure out where to urinate and defecate.

Humans need to do both. If they don't have private places to do so, the streets will be the place. We need STAFFED public bathrooms and hygiene centers, so they won't be taken over by drug dealing and prostitution. Unfortunately, public bathrooms and hygiene centers are expensive because of restrictive ordinances and zoning and public health laws, and there isn't enough money to get them built with all that expense up front.

So we have public urination and defecation, just as we have people sleeping on the streets and grassy areas and in vehicles on city streets and getting tossed out of all of those areas because of, again, restrictive ordinances and zoning.

Again -- where are people supposed to go? If you don't want to see them, find a place for them. Although they die depressingly younger than housed people, they're not going to go away just because you find them unsightly.

Until shoppers and strollers can go down to the square and sit on a bench without fear of being molested by panhandlers or worse, Pioneer Square will remain the unsavory dump it has become.

Pioneer Square was a lot of fun in the late 1970's and early 1980's, and I always felt safe there, even walking alone to my car.

I haven't felt Pioneer Square was clean, or safe since about 1989. Every year, it has slid down the Richtor Scale of Filth and Violence, to a point where I do not know if it is salvageable.

The panhandlers, drunks and ghetto jerks need a new home. Perhaps in the bore tunnel hole.

The hell it's all about "residents". It's all about the combination of successful businesses who want to locate in Pioneer Square + residents + customers.

However until Pioneer Square is no longer used as a dumping ground for homeless bums, vagrants and skanks with knives and guns, it's hopeless.

The new bore tunnel idea is a major joke. More parks in downtown Seattle will simply = more homeless bums, vagrants and skanks with knives and guns. That and drugs. Great place for your kids to go shopping, ya know?

Sarah, don't try to placate the dirt and filth. It's inherently wrong, but even if we gave them free housing with free food and clothing ... ya think they would stay there? Wishful thinking. It's the drugs and alchol they want, not the stable life.

I don't know how to solve that dilemma, but putting all those people into Pioneer Square, then expecting merchants to deal with it, clearly isn't working.

When profitability comes back to Pioneer Square ... so will consumers.

I have a major problem with this truth: "Drug possession and intent to sell laws have changed recently to the benefit of the drug dealers. One example specifies it now takes 9 arrests of an individual before actual prosecution can occur. Why? No money to prosecute and no jail space. These drug thugs play these laws to the fullest extent to the frustration of the front-line Police Officers. They are arrested over and over only to return within 24 hours and begin selling again. Who do they sell to? Homeless folks spending their DESC checks. The 1st and the 15th down here is a circus."

Yet ... if I go to dinner at a restaurant, have a glass or two of wine, I can get a DUI even if I blow below a .08. AND, I can lose MY license for 90-days, go to jail, and pay a ton of money. Ummm-hmmmm. Honey stop the car, there's a major problem going on 'round here.

This is part of the dilemma: No wonder Pioneer Square restaurants have gone out of business. Faster than a speeding meth bullet. Faster than pee on a street. Faster than filth on a bun.

Whatever. There is a reason when a gorgeous area turns filthy and fails, and mostly it is governmental morons.

More parks means more bums? Huh?

Even in a good economy it is a huge risk to open a retail shop. A few months back I overheard two panhandlers lamenting the closure of a downtown restaurant. "was a great place to ask for money", Yeah, folks often gave us the leftovers, too". Full disconnect that before and after dinner out a customer might choose a restaurant where they are NOT panhandled on entry and exit vs. one where they ARE.

Seen downtown Bellevue lately? Crowds on streets. Shopping, dining out? Never thought I would see that when I grew up there as a kid. But my walk about a few weeks back spoted all of JUST ONE panhandler the entire evening.

In my morning two bus commute, I cannot change busses without encountering a dozen or more. Westlake, and at Third and Pine at 5:45 AM I can buy stolen goods, drugs, and get panhandled. I don't have a solution, but the bum gauntlet that is now part of everyday downtown Seattle can only help Malls and the cities that do NOT have them.

Hopefully Main Street will provide some training regarding how to effectively make change in City laws and/or ordinances. I seriously doubt Ellensberg, Pt. Townsend, etc. have the same issues as PS.

I hope the business owners and/or retailers get off their arses, organize, and talk to their elected officials about what's needed in Pioneer Square instead of complaining to each other about how bad things are. It's almost like a co-dependent relationship down here...

How many of you who commented live in Pioneer square? Not work, but live there now?

I am glad to hear that the Washington Trust is involved in efforts to revitalize Pioneer Square. I also think that the idea of having more real residents and businesses that serve them, rather than tourists and Sports enthusiasts, is a really good idea, (although it is an older idea that was not really all that well implemented).

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time in the Pioneer Square area (and adore it) and a woman, I have never found the panhandlers or homeless to be all that difficult or scary. I think that it is a measure of Pioneer Square's decency that the homeless have not been turned away and they should not be. And I agree with Sarah who asked " where are they supposed to go?" As for avoiding the art galleries or gallery night because of the panhandlers, that has never been my concern, although I do not always find the galleries all that inviting.