So what is that "understanding" that we might learn from? When water rises, move to higher ground? Thank you, Knute. Thank you, indigenous wisdom.

BlueLight:

A sampling of things to think about given the Native American experience:

Does the city have evacuation routes in the event of catastrophe, and do ordinary citizens know about them?

Could we do better than New Orleans with Katrina, but with less warning?

Are plans for the waterfront, seawall, tunnel and 520 realistic in light of potential hazards? Does a downtown tunnel below the water table make sense in light of global warming or other food or quake hazards?

When it comes to rare tsunamis, surges or seiches on Puget Sound or Lake Washington, are there signs the average person could see that would warn them to act? As noted in the story, some of the most successful survivor groups from the Indian Ocean tsunami of '04 were tribal groups that had no modern technology to warn them, only their eyes and ears.

Since Western scientists weren't here in 1700, is there anything more in native lore that could tell us about what to expect or signs of danger?

The point is, clearly there is a body of history here that is really interesting and worth learning about.

It may be interesting and worth learning about, Knute, but knowledge such as "run to high ground when the waters rise" isn't the exclusive province of native peoples. As for your "sampling of things to think about given the Native American experience"... I think lessons learned from the actual event (Katrina) are far more valuable to emergency preparedness and response than historic mythologies. If those Native Americans have a verifiable way of accurately predicting tsunamis, that's another matter. But, as far as I know, they do not.

Sounds like a another good reason to rebuild or refurbish the viaduct to me. Saves a couple of BILLION dollars too.

Still time to do the right thing.

Knute, exactly what are the lessons to be learned from native peoples about building dense population centers, multi-story buildings, highways, industrial scale shipping infrastructure, etc. in areas that are subject to earthquakes and tsunamis?

I respect oral tradition, but the comparison is apples and oranges.

What was interesting about native folklore was that there is a story of the gods being angry and tossing the canoes into the trees. This story of course was dis-guarded by the white folks who moved here... until geologists dug up the coast and noticed that every 300 to 600 years major earthquakes occurred, and that the coast moved about 6 ft.

So in one sense, we've already ignored the local knowledge by not building to Richter scale 8 our local structures.

As for rebuilding the viaduct, didn't anyone here pay attention to the geology report about what the viaduct is sitting on? Sand? Anyone seriously think that a sand foundation is going to survive a 9.0 earthquake? Same for an under the water level tunnel. It's not going to be pretty when it happens.

As for historical tribal knowledge, the other take away is to build as if you wanted the food supply to last for generations past our own. Hence fixing the drainage blocking culverts under our roads so that Salmon can reach the streams and habitat that is left. There are plenty of oral histories that suggest that taking ALL of the salmon that pass up the river is a bad idea.

As for Katrina, the lesson there is don't dig a canal that allows storm surge to run right toward your city even if it's the most direct path for shipping. Remember the storm missed the city.

Maybe ancient peoples understood one thing that we, seemingly, do not: life is full of risks. Our drive to regulate it away has, obviously, lost touch with that truth.

See also "Making Waves" (1995), Ed Wenk Jr., U. W professor emeritus of Engineering and Public Affairs.

LotusRally: To your question, I highly recommend reading Charles Mann's book, "1491" about new discoveries and perspectives on Pre-Columbian America, which, it turns out was mostly urban (even by European standards of the day), heavily populated, often with extensive road and trade systems (think Chaco Canyon, the Inca empire) and dense, multi-story housing. Way beyond the tsunami issue, it turns out they have a lot to teach about sustainabilty, hazard, even agricultural techniques, etc. The real question is, is there anything we can learn from the records of peoples who have lived here longer about how they dealt with infrequent events that we have not yet experienced here? And are we really asking all the right questions of ourselves about these matters (as I outlined above).

"life has risks" and "regulating it away"... well lets ask ourselves about regulations which in fact do serve the public good. For instance crib bar spacing. Prior to regulation, any old spacing would do. But for a new parent, whose child's head gets caught in the crib rails, I'd never be able to say "cavet emptor", your child is seriously injured because you stupidly didn't think about the possibility that crib rails could kill.

Or how about steering wheels that used to impale the driver with a head on crash? Regulations changed that so they must crumple. Well it does add to the cost of the vehicle but how many people were unnecessarily killed from this poor design?

Or how about regulations that require banks to transfer the title of a loan when they sell it? Totally ignored, and now look what has happened. Fund managers bought packed loans as bonds which in fact never had the titles to the loans... And now the banks are trying to cover it up with back dated paperwork, otherwise known as forgeries.

Regulation serves a purpose when the free market can't control excessive greed.

Since the article is about "tsunamis," I'll have to stick with the viaduct. And if you insist on applying logic and practicality then you eliminate the tunnel for a lot of other reasons.

Regulations required fire-retardants in children's pajamas. They're now in our waterways.

One could say we would be better off with fewer people on the planet. To that extent, regs on crib bar spacing and steering wheel design have been really bad for the environment.

Not all regulations are good, not all are bad, Gary. But facing a growing population and a growing deficit we might - as a society - do well to accept that government can't protect us from everything.

Yes, we can learn from past experiences. However, since the invention of agriculture, man has changed the planet to the point that natural processes have been altered and in ever-increasing ways.

Sea Level rise is perhaps the most obvious and threatening natural phenomena. We (the world) will see unprecidented sea level rises that previous homoid inhabitants of our precious planet never experienced. High water previously has posed impacts from extreme high tides and storm surges. Tsunami's, Hurricanes, Earthquakes are good recent examples. But we are in for a new and devastating change in the way our planet functions, that being, rising temperatures and subsequent significant sea level rises.

Without going into details that can be easily verified by a myrid of new authoritative publications ( for example,our own U of W Professor Peter D. Ward's new publication "The Flooded Earth: Our Future In A World Without Ice Caps, 2010), the imact of SLR in the next century will,based on today's scientific projections could be as low as 3 feet to estimates of 5-8 feet. That's approaching one story rise and that will keep going up beyond that into the next century.

So, if we can learn from this inevitiable impact to our city, might we be asking ourselves, why are we about to spend $5+ billion on waterfront improvements and new transportation solutions (Deep Bored Tunnel)in the areas most impacted by SLR?

Shouldn't we be discussing what, if any, currently used lowland real estate should be saved, protected (dikes) or sacrificed. Remember that all the lowland that provides the backbone of our economy (Duawmish Waterway/SODO all the way down to Auburn) thatwere created by filling water and swamp areas, will be threatened with inundation.

Earlier cultures had it easy, they just gradually moved up hill. What will it cost us and our decendants to save or relocate our infrastructure of roads and utilities so salvaged land can be kept functional.

What is the cost of "Diking" Seattle's lowlands? Oh, and by the way, every impacted community in America (the world), will be asking the same questions and trying to find funding that they do not have. And, will it still make sense to manage growth the way we do now, when relocating vital functions will have to seek new and challenging locations?

Sure, you say we can wait until these changes are unavoidable. But, wouldn't it be more rationaland cost-effective to use today's dollars to start the reconfiguring our our city and get a jump on the problem. It will never be cheaper than today's dollars.

So, while we look back to see what lessons are to be learned, we need to look ahead and make sure that everything we do today, has a lasting benefit for the future.

Or, just stick our collective heads in the sand and do nothing.

This week, it was announced that WSDOT has received a Federal grant of $190,000 to study SLR and it's impact on transportation projects. Might we put the present planning for the Seawall and the Deep Bored Tunnel on hold until WSDOT gets the results of this study?

Or not!

Knute, too bad the message here gets lost in GlenBeck-isms. Our ancestors didn't do a bunch of beggeting that resulted in you and me through dumb luck. I don't think we can listen to aboriginal stories and use them as a literal how-too guide for life, be they coastal salish or the judean tribes. Still, while they may not have been software or aerospace engineers, they managed to survive repeated catastophes that were spaced lifetimes apart. Some of them must have learned to use some kind of early predictive signs--I doubt they all stood there as a tide went all glassy eyed, lower lip drooping, thinking , "huh?". maybe we don't need more technology but some common sense.

Brad,

What's a GlenBeck-ism?

And, what is the message, again?

BlueLight, the problem is that some children didn't die, they just became horribly damaged. Since as a society we are unwilling to kill live children because their parents made a mistake, we instead have national health care which will care for them at great expense until they die a "natural" death. Same for steering wheels.

If you truly want to decrease the population, look at the countries with a negative population growth and emulate them. Turns out education of women, and access to birth control, are the largest factors in reducing the number of births. Population control is usually an argument used by racists, meaning, less of "them" and more like "me". Go read PJ O'Rourke's article on it for a humorist look at the problem. (I think it's in "Give War a Chance.")

Seeing as how we're still waiting for the 'next' tsunami, it would be simple to learn what Indian wisdom would teach us about preparing for it- just ask them! Knute's argument would be a lot stronger if he had found a little more than "When you hear strange sounds and the sea recedes, run for the hills!" And I'm not even sure he found that.

Okay...I just want to comment on how friggin' fascinating this article (and its myriad of links) really is (when contrasted with...say...THE TIMES). Please...call me a Northwest Geek (I actually read that weather book from the UW weather geek).

In point of fact (not myth), this experience confirms for some of us what Knute knows (but rarely preaches): Raven really did steal the sun. And...well...find your own personal and beautiful Northwest myth to grock on man...it's your duty as a citizen of "SeaPort."

BTW...who knows the connection between the Kalakala Ferry and the Simpson's episode where Homer travels to New York to pick up the car that Barney stole?

Bring us more of this Knute...this is total brain candy!

grousefinder: Will do!

"...man has changed the planet to the point that natural processes have been altered and in ever-increasing ways."

This assumption rests on the fallacy that humans and their actions aren't natural and somehow we have magical powers to stop the tides, reverse the poles, and move continents. Bullshift. After 4 billion years of existence the Earth has experienced things beyond the capability of humans to exceed.

Every human activity whether is be genocide, farming, or beach combing is entirely natural. Some human activity might not be desirable 24/7 but the reality is that we don't get to choose how others act. We can try to regulate behavior and keep the "un-natural actions" in the background. We see how well that works.

Indians possess no more or no less wisdom about dealing with natural events. They certainly aren't the first humans that have dealt with tsunamis and created myths about it, nor will they be the last. They reacted as circumstances and their experience dictate. Then they talked about it and over time developed an explanation for the event, with a moral. Typical behavior as my altho friends would say. The biggest natural event that the Indian ever faced was Dr. Disease and us, and that didn't have a happy ending. Yet.

I can't say I earned much from the Indians about tsunamis here, but the way Knute spins the telling of the tale was fascinating. What he's saying makes about as much sense as telling the Boeing Company they could learn a lot about building airplanes from the Indians- and many readers find this interesting and believable!

Researchers, after all, have studied the geology and seismic events of the coast for decades. They map the fault lines deep in the earth, measure and record samples from the coast and offshore, comb through the results of archaeologists, and monitor the movement of the tectonic plates from space. More exposed nations, such as Japan or Peru, have spent much more than we have trying to understand tsunamis and how to defend against their force.

Studying tsunamis, and the levels of the sea, is an absolutely huge business, for a very simple reason- most of our commerce, and most of our value, is located at the waters edge. For centuries civilizations have been building breakwaters, seawalls, dikes, and enclosed harbors, to protect against this very obvious danger. This is not some surprise that an Indian legend can warn us against- it is the subject of intense worry and study by every port agency, city government and state or federal agency dealing with our coasts.

So it turns out the Indian knowledge on all of this is the same as our own- the rich people live on the hill, the poor people live in the river bottom, and if you make your living from the sea, your assets by the shore are at hazard.

What all of these centuries of learning, and building, failed to teach us, however, is that the greatest natural disaster, the one that almost no culture has predicted or tried to protect against, is ourselves. We have created global warming by industrialization, and in a very short time- hardly 300 years have passed since the first use of coal as a source of power.

Now, if Knute can come up with an Indian legend warning of the dangers of creating an industrialized world, with all we see around us, and the subsequent AGW, that would be interesting.

I'm guessing, though, that we'll need to trust the scientists and their new-fangled gear to find our way out of this one.

Hm. I quite enjoyed this piece and think it clearly expresses a more interesting and nuanced list of lessons than "when the wave hits, head for high ground." More like, "remember that you're in tsunami and quake country; plan and build accordingly--don't just ignore the history and then be shocked and unprepared when a tsunami comes along. As a community we could emulate villages that learned to recover faster by being informed about escape routes etc., and also because of kinship networks that integrated displaced people." Another lesson is to recognize that we all have responsibilities to take care of our environment, and when we forget this we pay for it.

People displaced by Katrina are still living in temporary housing. No one who lived through Katrina would say we can afford to be arrogant and dismissive of any wisdom available about how to do a better job of weathering natural disasters together.

This IS an especially good thread. My thanks go to Djinn for not letting this hubris pass:

"...since the invention of agriculture, man has changed the planet to the point that natural processes have been altered and in ever-increasing ways."

This assumption rests on the fallacy that humans and their actions aren't natural and somehow we have magical powers to stop the tides, reverse the poles, and move continents. Bullshift. After 4 billion years of existence the Earth has experienced things beyond the capability of humans to exceed.

More down to earth than great ecologists like Dan Botkin (No Man's Garden), but on the same track is Steve Solomon's new sixth addition of "Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades." His first edition in 1981 was actually about growing vegetables, but this last is more an account of how thinking (what he calls meditating while leaning on a hoe) while doing something over a very long time teaches you, for one thing, the relationship between plants that grow wild and those we decide to cultivate—the other side of coin from researching the past is a life well thought.