Sound Transit is accused of push-polling
The widely promoted Sound Transit survey has more bugs than bang, say critics. My blog linking to the survey gleaned excellent critiques posted by our Crosscut readers. I just got word that Will Knedlik, state-rep-turned-transportation activist, has asked Sound Transit to shut down the survey, charging that it constitutes push-polling and calling for disciplinary action. This happened at a Sound Transit board meeting on Feb. 28, and you can watch the action here. (It's about 15 minutes in, after a Link safety report.)
Where does this leave the transportation quandary? Does anyone have a word in defense of the survey? Any suggestions for what Sound Transit should have done to properly solicit public comment, and through what means? As a possible contrast, remember that Puget Sound Partnership is holding workshops this spring to do the same. Should Sound Transit have opted for a method more sound?
Comments:
Posted Sat, Mar 1, 4:01 p.m. inappropriate
Polling is good, push polling is not: I am very curious to see who will defend this survey as it is implemented today.
Asking the public though is a good idea. I just wonder, seriously, is anyone listening?
I feel the highest priorities for transportation are the 520 and viaduct corridors. What happens with them will then shape what else we do in terms of tax structure, bus and rail options, etc. As someone pointed out previously, if we close off the HOV lanes on I90 and replace them with rail, and 520 doesn't have bus lanes, then we may be in a real jam. Similarly, if we vote for a sales tax increase this fall for ST2, I think it makes it less likely voters will go along with tolls, which I feel are needed both for global warming and to pay for specific road corridors like 520.
The survey doesn't give any way for this type of perspective. Too many assumptions, too many loose definitions like "mass transit - are you in favor of it?" , too many combinations that make it impossible to determine perspectives on one item apart from another. Example: rail on the BNSF tracks and rail on I90.
I think an appropriate survey would ask people to give their priorities, it would provide a way for open ended comments that could then be used to shape a follow up survey that is both open to the public and that is asked in a statistically valid manner of voters who live in the taxing area. Finally it would not be prejudged to an end point: the whole point of the survey seems to be "will people vote for .3, .5 or what for a sales tax increase to pay for rail." Definitely the survey should ask about alternatives for paying for transportation improvements. The legislature should insist on this before there's another vote.
Posted Sat, Mar 1, 6:31 p.m. inappropriate
It was pretty bad: Yeah, push polling is an understatement. It was more like shove down a flight of stairs polling.
If you had your choice, which would you prefer:
1) A $2 billion expenditure for light rail over 10 years.
2) A $5 billion expenditure for light rail over 20 years.
3) To die starving and alone because I couldn't get anywhere on light rail.
Posted Sun, Mar 2, 2:29 a.m. inappropriate
um....: Will Kvedlik is disbarred anyone? Why are we listening to that guy?
Abers hould have written "Disbarred state-rep-turned-transportation activist"...
And why was Kvedlik disbarred? Kvedlik was disbarred for "his bringing several frivolous claims, contacting represented parties directly, using litigation to embarrass, delay or burden third parties, and failing to diligently represent a client".
Read Kvedlik's personal vendetta here...
NOT a trust worthy source of information...
Posted Sun, Mar 2, 7:44 a.m. inappropriate
Disbarred Politician?: The fellow has good points about the survey, and certainly about ST's huge Blind spot of listening to the public. If we are going to ignore disbarred lawyers and former politicans opinions, does that mean I shouldn't listen to Bill Clinton and vote for Obama? I am afraid the COP is a J-O-K-E. loaded with cronies, just look at who was running the meeting, Mayor Submerged Viaduct.
Posted Sun, Mar 2, 10:23 p.m. inappropriate
a sad band of ST haters plays the media again: I read the poll as an honest attempt by Sound Transit to find out whether people wanted to return to the ballot in 2008 or 2010 and what type of rail/bus mix they would like to see. This is only one tool ST is using to determine future decisions. They have had hundreds of public meetings, tons of media, and a recent campaign. Their board is filled with publicly elected officials. Any decision on future rail ballots will be made very openly.
Lisa Albers dings the survey in her original post for not saying who the "experts" referred to are. Then she says "critics" say the poll has more bugs than bang. Who are these critics? Most of her Crosscut posters she praises are professional ST haters. John Niles and Will Knedlik are both members of CETA, an anti-rail, anti-ST organization that has been largely discredited by its ten year inability to provide sensible alternatives for transit. These folks are all portly gentlemen who prefer their SOV to transit. They tell us the bus is better because they rarely ride one. sjenner and dtooley are long time ST haters on many forums as well.
Push polls are almost always used for NEGATIVE campaigning. The idea that ST would try to meaningfully change public opinion through a word of mouth poll is laughable. This is just another attempt to try to kill mass transit by a thousand paper cuts.
Lisa, if you want to really cover Sound Transit and get the answers to the questions you pose at the end of your post I think that would be great. I would start by talking to ST board members and staff and asking critical questions. But maybe you prefer just taking spoonfed, narrow, misleading, straw man information from car loving dinosaurs like John Niles and Will Knedlik masquerading as critical thinkers.
Posted Sun, Mar 2, 11:06 p.m. inappropriate
RE: a sad band of ST haters plays the media again: Garbage in, garbage out. If we don't have facts on the table, if we don't have accurate information and perspectives, whatever is up for vote is just going to get defeated again, setting us back further from solutions taxpayers will actually pay for.
Yes, Sound Transit / RTID had an amazing amount of citizen input for the last measure. But, the measure lost despite all that input seeming to say "go for it." So, that raises the question: what is the best way to get some citizen input?
I personally feel it is appropriate to call a survey a "push poll" if it asks questions that directs answers into certain groupings that appear to me to be pre-defined.
This survey seems to me to be designed in part to gain talking points, along the lines of "we got thousands of responses and they all said mass transit is great."
Well, that's nice. We've learned that the poll is open to anyone, not just voters in the taxing district. We've learned it is possible to take the poll multiple times. We've learned certain questions are not included, like "what is the region's top transportation priority" or "how important is reducing greenhouse gas as a part of a transportation plan" or "what suggestions do you have for paying for public transit besides a sales tax increase."
I feel these are important questions to be asking, especially since the Ron Sims and Sierra Club in the last election made a big deal about greenhouse gas emission reductions (correctly in my opinion) and since a very small percentage of people polled after the election liked using sales tax increases to pay for roads and transit. Wasn't it something like 25%? I don't remember exactly, but I remember the comment "it is really hard to get a win when so many people don't like the payment method."
Isn't this our goal, to get to transportation solutions the public will actually support? I write this wistfully because we're losing yet another opportunity, but I don't think this particular survey gets us closer.
Posted Mon, Mar 3, 11:28 a.m. inappropriate
Push poll, push-pull, pull in: I completed the ST survey last week, after which I encouraged numerous other public sector colleagues to take a look at it; that ST is clearly fishing to shape its next ballot measure. Push polling? Maybe. But at minimum, a fairly blatant attempt to take the public temperature, see what projects will fly, see what to put out there. What I liked about the survey: text boxes. I could deviate from the survey questions and tell 'em what I really thought.
Posted Mon, Mar 3, 5:31 p.m. inappropriate
RE: Disbarred Politician?: Whaat are you talking about, obama was not disbarred, and clinton was disbarred for perjury.
Saying that you're as good as a perjuror is not a complement.
Posted Tue, Mar 4, 2:01 a.m. inappropriate
RE: a sad band of ST haters plays the media again: The anonymous tiptoeing tommy misportrays me. I haven't driven a car into the Seattle downtown since last June. My most frequent mode of travel recently is on public buses.
Along with others, based on the evidence, I prefer buses to trains as the main mode of transit in the Seattle area. I'm looking forward to Metro's new Rapid Ride buses and Community Transit's Swift bus rapid transit.
The U.S. Census bureau reports that Seattle downtown's workers use mass transit for commuting more than any of the peer cities like Portland and Denver that have installed light rail.
Computer models from Puget Sound Regional Council show that buses would provide more daily rides than light rail in 2040 even if 125 miles of light rail were in place and operating.
We now have one of the best public bus systems in the country, and if Sound Transit and the U.S. Government weren't planning to waste so much money ($1.6 billion) on a two-station light rail subway tunnel, the bus system could be funded to work even better, all over the region.
The official environmental Record of Decision prepared by Sound Transit for that tunnel tells us that it will generate more greenhouse gas in seven years of construction than will be saved in 45 years of future use by former car commuters, assuming that automobile emissions stay the same. If automobile greenhouse gas emission levels drop, which is likely given the clean technology push underway in car companies, the Seattle light rail subway tunnel comes out a net contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.
One good thing in Sound Transit's current planning for what comes next is the indication of more willingness to improve Regional Express bus service.
Posted Wed, Mar 5, 12:11 p.m. inappropriate
RE: a sad band of ST haters plays the media again: a very small percentage of people polled after the election liked using sales tax increases to pay for roads and transit.
The lege is to blame. That's the funding source it gave the agency.
Posted Thu, Mar 6, 12:01 p.m. inappropriate
RE: um....: Will Kvedlik is disbarred anyone? Why are we listening to that guy?
Knedlik's forgotten more about push polling than you'll ever know.
Posted Thu, Mar 6, 5:41 p.m. inappropriate
ST's Pre-owned Car Lot: I do not have sufficent time to study to the level of detail of some. I did take the poll and found the questions to be very loaded. There were comment spaces, but I wonder what will be done with the comments--largely tossed, I'm guessing.
This reminds me of the huge glossy 'informational' flyers that were sent to every household just before the Nov '07 election, at taxpayer expense of about $400,000. Just based on their marketing ploys, I do not trust the ST folks, and would not buy a used car from them. I do not have infinite time to research, but just based on those warning flags alone, I'm heading for a different used car lot.