Pagan or perv? Nude etiquette in Fremont
I went to the Fremont Solstice parade June 21 for the first time in many, many years and saw the famed nekkid bike riders. But I have a few questions about the etiquette of public pagan nudity in Seattle, so weigh in if you have an opinion.
So much nudity reminded me why most people ought to wear clothes. The good and the bad about it is that it's about as sexy as a visit to a nudist colony, where nearly everyone who is naked shouldn't be.
That said, the painted "costumes" and get-ups were mostly wonderful and hilarious. It was like seeing the city's psyche empty into the streets. Though riding on a bike seat in the buff seems, well, ouch.
But here are my questions:
First, at co-ed hippie saunas and hot tubs there is definitely an unwritten rule not to stare. It's bad when a newbie thinks it's a pick-up joint. If one guys goes all Tom Jones, it ruins it for everyone. So, is it wrong to ogle at the one or two cyclists who are particularly hot? Is that bad form in Fremont? Or is it to be expected?
Second, what do people think about all the young kids along the route seeing painted, naked people with their dicks and breasts hanging out? My feeling is, most younger kids probably haven't yet been indoctrinated fully in shame, so it's probably OK, but standards change. When I was a kid, there were a few families where moms and dads ran around nude or nearly nude (I had an uncle in California who seemed to follow an underpants-only rule at home). Nowadays, someone might call Child Protective Services on a parent who did that. I'm fine with a once-a-year public nudie event, but am I wrong?
Third, some people are cheaters. There were "nude" riders in g-strings, panties, and various creative thongs and covers (a favorite: a man who had strategically placed a cone-shaped party hat to form a kind of dunce cap for his penis). Is this kosher? A "partially clad" bicycling event hardly seems like it would attract publicity.
Fourth, some people didn't bother to wear costumes at all. No body paint, no funny hats, or anything. Not only is this much more revealing, but it seemed odd. But OK, streakers allowed, I suppose. However, nearly two hours after the parade there was at least one guy still walking around Gas Works Park with nothing on. The only thing on display for picnicking families was his summer sausage. Many other nude paraders had put on shorts, etc., but this guy wasn't in any hurry. Pagan, or perv?
Fifth, I did see an awful lot of photographers, one at Gas Works who seemed to bring out his camera when nude women bent over. Does this violate the spirit of the day? Hard-working press photog, or perv?
Lastly, at the Gas Works gathering, I noticed a booth selling chocolate-covered fruit. This did not appeal to me after the parade because it reminded me of so many painted body bits I had just seen. However, I was disappointed that none of the booths were selling hot dogs. Is this a question I should take up with my shrink, or do I get a pass because it was solstice in Fremont?








Comments:
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 1:25 a.m. inappropriate
To me, being nude is being the same person but in a sensually charged ambience that is very pleasura: There is a difference in nudism or naturalism and pornography. Nudism believes in the freedom from the restrictions of clothing, Porn is for sexual gratification. Naturist looks like you and I and come from all walks of life. You will find it to be a relaxing lifestyle that is free of the daily stress we all experience. Naturist groups like naturistmingle are looking for people who are open minded and want to enjoy the company of others of a like mind.
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 9:27 a.m. inappropriate
RE: To me, being nude is being the same person but in a sensually charged ambience that is very plea: "You will find it to be a relaxing lifestyle that is free of the daily stress we all experience."
Well, it's true that my friends and I spend a lot less time hanging out together naked than we did in the skinny-dipping heydays of our late teens and early 20s, but I doubt that more such activity would be a release from the stresses of adulthood. I like to think of our collective resort to shorts and T-shirts more as a bow to aesthetics, and the balm to the ego that comes from remembering yourself and those closest to you as a contingent of bronzed Adonises, rather than as a pack of pasty-skinned, hairy, fat old men. Public nudity should be left to those that do it best, the young. Too soon, nature will let you know that your time as an exhibitionist has passed.
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 12:54 p.m. inappropriate
Ummm, Knute...I have news:: Nobody asked you whether we "should" be going nude in all our less-than-prefect glory.
"So much nudity reminded me why most people ought to wear clothes. The good and the bad about it is that it's about as sexy as a visit to a nudist colony, where nearly everyone who is naked shouldn't be."
When I go nude at places like a nudist colony, a nude beach, or a private pool party--places where everybody knows there are going to be all sorts of nekkid people running around--I'm not there to provide anybody with eye candy. I'm there to enjoy the sun and wind and water on ALL of my skin, and relax in the freedom of not worrying that I don't have a so-called perfect body. Most people I know who go to places like that are there for the same reason--and if not, and they don't like what they see here, not my problem--they can just look someplace else.
I've earned every have wrinkle and bump and sag I've got, and I wear them with pride. When I chose to wear them unclothed in an appropriate setting among consenting adults, your "ought to's" and "shouldn't's" really are kind of silly and irrelevant.
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 3:40 p.m. inappropriate
RE: To me, being nude is being the same person but in a sensually charged ambience that is very plea: What do you mean about being "sensually charged". Unlike what nudists say I guess nudity is a sexualized experience for you, right?
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 3:56 p.m. inappropriate
RE: Ummm, Knute...I have news:: "When I go nude at places like a nudist colony, a nude beach, or a private pool party--places where everybody knows there are going to be all sorts of nekkid people running around--I'm not there to provide anybody with eye candy. I'm there to enjoy the sun and wind and water on ALL of my skin, and relax in the freedom of not worrying that I don't have a so-called perfect body.
While I mostly agree with you two points here. One, nudists don't like their venues being called nudist "colonies". Since you have claimed to have gone to nudist places I though you would know that.
Second, the Fremont Solstice parade isn't a nudist venue, a nude beach, or a private pool but instead it is being naked among a lot of people there who would never think of getting nude. Unlike the World Naked Bike which often catch people unaware, the naked bikers at the Fremont Solstice parade has been such a feature there for so long everyone should know if they go to see the parade they will see as you called it "nekkid" people. And since that is the case I don't have any problem about them being there since there is a common understanding that this will be a feature of the parade.
But again, the people watching the parade won't be like the people who would go to nudist venues, a nude beach, hot spring, or a private pool. All too many of them will have the perspective unfortunately like Knute here. And that is why I wonder why people would want to parade around "textiles" (that's the term nudists use for non-nudists). Going to a nudist venue doesn't seem like exhibitionism because you are there just to enjoy how it feels to be nude and since everyone around is nude, you being nude isn't going to attract any more attention to you (in fact in that situation not being nude would attract attention). However parading around (nudists are often accused of "parading around" except in this case the term is appropriate) in front of a bunch of textiles, with all their attitudes and such, and with your nudity indeed attracting attention to you, it does seem that exhibitionism is at play here.
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 4:01 p.m. inappropriate
RE: Ummm, Knute...I have news:: I've earned every have wrinkle and bump and sag I've got, and I wear them with pride. When I chose to wear them unclothed in an appropriate setting among consenting adults, your "ought to's" and "shouldn't's" really are kind of silly and irrelevant.
What about among children and their consenting parents?
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 7:27 p.m. inappropriate
Answers to your questions: My take on 'em, anyway:
1. So, is it wrong to ogle at the one or two cyclists who are particularly hot? Naked people who choose to traverse a parade route in front of thousands of people expect to be looked at. Ogle away.
2. Second, what do people think about all the young kids along the route seeing painted, naked people with their dicks and breasts hanging out? In our family, we read books to our kids that explain about the differences between male and female bodies. Aside from those occasions when mom or dad is a bit leisurely about getting dressed after the shower, they rarely get a chance to observe the differences directly. The only other time is in the locker room at the swimming pool, and then they only see variations on their own theme. Personally, I'd rather the kids have the opportunity to see naked bodies in a context of something that's fun, relaxed, silly, and (almost entirely) nonsexual.
3. Third, some people are cheaters...Is this kosher? Is this really something you worry about? If so: I think it's just fine, especially if it means you'll give yourself permission to join in the scantily clad fun next year. How mossy is that back, anyway?
4. Fourth, some people didn't bother to wear costumes at all. No body paint, no funny hats, or anything. Not only is this much more revealing, but it seemed odd. But OK, streakers allowed, I suppose. My recollection from the early nineties was that the naked bikers back then were generally entirely unclothed, much more streakeresque. Remember the clashes with the police? If anything I'd say the body painting is more akin to your concern in question #3.
4a. Pagan, or perv? Why not both?
5. Fifth, I did see an awful lot of photographers, one at Gas Works who seemed to bring out his camera when nude women bent over. See question #1. Pervy, but not exactly unexpected, either. The point you raise about g-strings in question 3 may be an attempt to set limits with regard to this issue.
6. However, I was disappointed that none of the booths were selling hot dogs. There's a reason Kinsey set the scale from one to six, honey. It's OK.
Posted Mon, Jun 23, 7:29 p.m. inappropriate
RE: Ummm, Knute...I have news:: "While I mostly agree with you two points here. One, nudists don't like their venues being called nudist "colonies". Since you have claimed to have gone to nudist places I though you would know that."
Good try--but I was using your terminology here. Actually, if you're really interested, I haven't been to a nudist colony, naturist resort, or anything of that precise nature--but I have been to enough other clothing-optional events and venues to know the proper language, the etiquette, and the reasons people go there.
"Second, the Fremont Solstice parade isn't a nudist venue, a nude beach, or a private pool."
Yes, I but I was again responding here to your words:
"...it's about as sexy as a visit to a nudist colony, where nearly everyone who is naked shouldn't be."
You weren't talking about the Solstice Parade in that sentence, you were talking about a "nudist colony."
As far as I'm concerned, there is room for debate about nudity at the Solstice Parade. Personally, the naked, decorated bicyclists are one of my favorite parts of the Solstice Parade--but I realize that there are those who don't agree. I think that by now, anybody who doesn't expect to see some naked people there hasn't been paying attention--but I do allow for the possibility that somebody, somehow, got flashed Saturday against their wishes. And, tempted as I am to say, too bad, get over it...I'm not entirely comfortable doing that. If I expect anybody else to respect my preferences and boundaries and tender sensibilities, then I guess I can't dismiss theirs so cavalierly.
But you didn't just confine your remarks here to the Solstice Parade--and I was responding to the remarks you made about nudity in other settings. If you didn't want the discussion to go beyond that particular event, then you shouldn't opened the way with your broader-ranging comments.
Posted Tue, Jun 24, 6:34 a.m. inappropriate
RE: Ummm, Knute...I have news:: Good try--but I was using your terminology here.
You seem to have mistaken me for the original poster of this article. I am not Knute and I agree with what you have to say about his comments.
Actually, if you're really interested, I haven't been to a nudist colony, naturist resort, or anything of that precise nature--but I have been to enough other clothing-optional events and venues to know the proper language, the etiquette, and the reasons people go there.
There are several good ones within the general Seattle area. You might want to give one of them a try (of course when the weather is better) because you are correct about generally why people go there.
I think that by now, anybody who doesn't expect to see some naked people there hasn't been paying attention--but I do allow for the possibility that somebody, somehow, got flashed Saturday against their wishes.
I understand that the Fremont Solstice parade is different from an event like say the World Naked Bike Ride in that by now people should know that if they go to the Solstice parade they are going to see naked people. But yeah, there is still room for debate here.
But you didn't just confine your remarks here to the Solstice Parade--and I was responding to the remarks you made about nudity in other settings. If you didn't want the discussion to go beyond that particular event, then you shouldn't opened the way with your broader-ranging comments.
Again you seem to have mistaken me for the original poster. I am not Knute.
But yeah, he did open the way with his broader-randing comments.
Posted Tue, Jun 24, 9:08 a.m. inappropriate
RE: Ummm, Knute...I have news:: Actually, if you're really interested, I haven't been to a nudist colony, naturist resort, or anything of that precise nature--but I have been to enough other clothing-optional events and venues to know the proper language, the etiquette, and the reasons people go there.
There are several good ones within the general Seattle area. You might want to give one of them a try (of course when the weather is better) because you are correct about generally why people go there.
Here is a list of them in the area.
Lake Associates Recreation Club
Lake Bronson Club
Fraternity Snoqualmie's Forestia Nudist Park
Posted Tue, Jun 24, 5:51 p.m. inappropriate
Antidote to Barbie: I think does an American child good to see that humans are as variously proportioned and colored as other mammals (said like a Finnish-American who grew up taking Sunday sauna).
This year our 7-year old took photos of the parade, and it was interesting to see what captured her attention. Not the unpainted people ("cheaters!") or the waggling men ("ew!") or the floral biker who mooned the crowd ("that's just gross!"). She zoomed in on the carefully-painted types (cheetah, zebra, starry sky) whether or not they conformed to conventional norms of beauty (chubby green goddess, you rocked). I hope she can maintain that perspective through her teens in our beauty-obsessed culture.
Still, 15 minutes of naked paraders was ten too many. Of considerable more delight were the music and floats and dancers. The pink and gold croquet team was worthy of Cirque de Soleil and the huge Ganesh and other papier-mache gods were gorgeous. I hope we seem more of them next year.
(And since plain old streaking is pretty boring, a minimum of glitter should be required. It's a parade, for heaven's sake. Make an effort!)
Posted Mon, Jun 30, 10:34 a.m. inappropriate
Right on, Mary McGhee!: This is a late post..perhaps too late to be read. Still, I believe it's worth saying. (Also, I have plenty of time now that I've been laid off at 56; prospects of finding employment in this youth-centric culture are grim. I'll be staking out my shopping cart before long.)
There is a kind of perversity in Knute's comment about the people going nude who should be wearing clothes. On the one hand--it's not meant in any way to BE sexually attractive, yet, he seems to be complaining that people who have chosen to go nude aren't.
The next point--my own howl--joins with yours, Mary McGhee. It is the sad perception that youth = beauty. Knute's comment only goes to further the syndrome of older men and women feeling that they need to be be ashamed of their age, therefore they must pose (try to "pass") as younger in order to have any value. This is true across the board--in personal, social and professional situations alike. (BTW--why is rampant, deadly employee age discrimination NEVER addressed?)
Younger people can't begin to compare with delicious older ones--rich or poor, clothed or unclothed. The style and grace that comes only with the fine polish of age, coupled with the depth and perspective of experience will win my heart any time over an arrogant, brash, shallow younger man (rich or poor, clothed or not). I'll take elegance and articulate intelligence, polished with a patina of patience that only an older person can have. There are no shortcuts to the subtle and sublime graciousness brought only with age. Their exhuberance and charm, playfulness and mystery are as vibrant as any younger person, but unlike younger persons, it is tempered with wisdom, character and understanding.
We have been brainwashed by marketing corporations (pharmaceutical, cosmetic, fashion...) and the media into seeing youth as the ideal state while at the same time devaluing age. That is in direct opposition of every culture around the world. In every culure other than this corporate media-fed society, respect, esteem and honor are gained with the years. Our media-primed society is taught that beauty is lost, exhubarance extinguished, with age and that age must be hidden or disguised (at any cost). In other cultures (and ours, too, historically) beauty, grace and wisdom are recognized, desired, and honored.
Here's to the older men and women everywhere!
(Are you listening, Knute??)