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Jul 14, 2008 10:00 PM | last updated Jul 14, 2008 10:37 PM
Crosscut Focus: Transportation. Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART).

Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART). (L.W. Yang / Creative Commons)

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The case for more rail transit

The region has tried a largely bus solution for 40 years, and by now the capacity flaws are apparent. If we are really serious about building density, we need to lay more rails.

By Ben Schiendelman

On a February day 40 years ago, just over 50 percent of metro-Seattle voters approved of Proposition 1. That was a plan to build 47 miles of electric rapid transit, with fast trains as often as every four minutes connecting every major hub in our region. Thanks to U.S. Sen. Warren Magnuson, D-Wash., a two-thirds federal contribution was secured and the region would only have paid $385 million, about $2.4 billion in 2008 dollars. The system would have opened in 1985 and been paid off last year.

At the time, though, a bond issue required 60 percent of the vote, so even with a majority, nothing could be built. The money earmarked for Seattle went instead to Atlanta. The long wait for rail began, and the case against it continues to be urged, more strongly than ever.

The anti-rail camp has all along used fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Detractors in 1968 called rail "inflexible" and labeled San Francisco's Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) plan "controversial." State Sen. Sam Guess, R-Spokane, promised a transit study committee for a bus alternative, but since a bus alternative would have meant giving up already full highway lanes, the bus plan floundered. With federal incentives spurring explosive suburban growth, the new American dream was in full swing, and those lanes were for Fords and Chevys.

The flexibility argument — that buses could follow shifting concentrations of passengers, unlike fixed rail — was always a straw man. (In practice, flexibility turns out to mean politically alterable, resulting mostly in slow, winding bus routes.) But nobody really thought our urban centers would pack up and move, requiring bus routes to follow them. Seattle's 1989 CAP initiative, limiting the height of Seattle office towers, did push some new construction to Bellevue. But even the iconic Smith Tower, completed in 1914 and long dwarfed by its Seattle neighbors, still has more stories than any of Bellevue's office towers. As highway money has dried up and oil prices have skyrocketed, development has shifted back to the city core.

Cities follow transportation. The ability to trade, in goods and ideas, is the primary driver of human development. Paris and London sit on rivers, Chicago on a lakeshore, Seattle alongside a storm-protected harbor. Fundamentally, cities develop to take in raw materials of every kind, then to add value by combining them into more specialized goods. Originally this meant iron ore, coal, and wood shaped into products and buildings. Now it also means software, genetic sequences, and circuitry.

These businesses and ideas don't occur in a vacuum. These ideas are brewed by discussions with the friend you run into at the coffee stand down the street. Every urban area's success is reliant upon its ability to foment face-to-face crossings between inventors and implementers, and these crossings happen proportionally to how dense and walkable our urban centers are.

Federal highway investment and other factors have long worked to shift these businesses from accessible but expensive downtown office buildings to widely spaced office parks. The diversity of experience in life and work was put in jeopardy and with it the United States' dominant role in innovation. Our urban vitality has been choked out by a lack of concentration.

We need to reverse this trend.

One key answer is rail transit. Forty years later, BART isn't so "controversial" after all, nor is Portland's MAX. Even here at home, our fledgling Sounder commuter rail will pull in well over 2 million passenger boardings in 2008. Rail isn't subject to the unreliability of highway congestion. People use it and people who want it demand new space to live and work near stations. Sound Transit's Link light rail is spurring thousands of new condos atop retail for the Rainier Valley, replacing vacant lots with dense development that offers a sure commute. The Sounder, with only commuter service during rush hours, is spurring development in Kent, where local government embraced it. Bellevue is already gearing up to develop near light rail a decade from now.

Buses have a key role as feeder services and in linking many smaller nodes. But they don't have the same concentrating effects, and so they alone cannot help us out of the pit we've dug with years of dispersed growth. We've proven that right here. While bus advocates won their battle in 1968, Seattle has created a system that may have saved some money but suffers from the unreliability of sharing lanes with traffic. We've had 40 years of trying to build a reliable bus-only transit system, only to bump into the political realities that prevent transit-only lanes or downtown roadways reserved for buses. Our transit system has fallen far behind our peers.

Crosscut recently ran three closely argued articles (1, 2, 3) by Doug MacDonald, the state's former transportation chief, making the case for only a modest component of rail, instead shifting much of the proposed money to bus rapid transit. Let me counter by pointing to two fundamental problems with his analysis.

MacDonald claims bus service can create density the same way rails can. This is technologically possible, but it doesn't seem to work out that way in the real world. Density comes from reliability that businesses and builders can take into account, but when all it takes is a bit of paint to turn a bus lane into a car lane, the permanence needed to build them into a business model is absent. We build rail in its own right-of-way — this is apparent with Link — so there's no pressure to turn it into highway. The cost to build buses at that service level (on dedicated right of way) is exactly the same, so bus advocates get their cost savings by dispensing with that exclusive right of way.

Take away the dedicated lanes and buses are at the mercy of traffic congestion. They bunch up and fall behind schedule. It's difficult to add buses to the routes, even when the demand grows. Some run overloaded, while others are empty. Passengers get frustrated, and some stop using the bus.

The other problem with a bus-heavy system is capacity. Buses can't scale up to meet the high service levels that core density demands. The costs to operate a single bus and a single light rail vehicle are similar, but the cost to add another car to that train is much lower than paying another driver to operate another bus. A single four-car Link train can carry more than 800 passengers, which is the equivalent of eight articulated buses. With doors along the entire length of such a train, it also takes the same amount of time to board and unload as a single bus, allowing much higher throughput. Running light rail trains a few minutes apart gives you capacities upwards of 20,000 people per hour per direction, far more than buses can provide.

Making our transportation reliable again is paramount to our success as a region. We've given the bus advocates 40 years to make their case, and the result has been increasingly congested roads and ever-slowing commutes. It's long past time to take the reins back and do things right.

  • Ben Schiendelman is a software engineer who has a strong interest in urban design and transportation systems in cities around the world and is a 20-year user of Metro Transit. You can reach him in care of editor@crosscut.com.
Comments
Sound Transit - an Example of the Corruption of Corporate America under Boomer Leadership
Report a violationPosted by: dltooley on Jul 15, 2008 9:43 AM
It isn't for me to say whether the Puget Sound should've invested in Light Rail 40 years ago. The fact is that the public expressed its will and the decision was made, period.

That 40 year period has also marked the zenith of the profitability, and usefulness, of the U.S. Corporate model. Sound Transit, and its two corporate counsel law firms, Preston Gates and Ellis/Foster Pepper Sheffelman illustrate those ills - as well as make a very strong case for the overreaching unprofitable Sound Transit organization.

PGE was lead counsel in the days leading up to the successful passage of the first funding package still in place (supported by this author, with the note that full promises have not been delivered). That firm no longer exists, probably thanks to the Abramoff scandal, though the matter has never been properly adjudicated.

Foster Pepper Sheffelman was selected as co-counsel in the early operating days and now rules that roost. Though different they are merely a reinvention of the same cycle of abuse practiced by PGE and its associates. The post monorail Prop 1 submittal is proof of that - and there is certainly more.

And unfortunately, so is the monopolistic Microsoft Corporation, irregardless of how much 'legal' justification they can muster.

Yet still the corrupt Bill Gates Sr brings in buco bucks for the UW - certainly respect for business in academia is an important subject, but using corporate welfare generated proceeds is NOT the same thing. A better measure than the defense of those who once made profits is the defense of those who have that potential in the future.

And, that, mon frere, is no different than academic freedom, no?

There is much to be done in America these days, including the paying off of the U.S. Debt from pockets of those that have put those funds in their pockets.

A good place to start though might well be the insistence that the Sound Transit Team, including management employees, counsel, and contracting companies, finish off the project as originally voted on AT THEIR EXPENSE.

Douglas Tooley
My Blog
RE: Sound Transit - an Example of the Corruption of Corporate America under Boomer Leadership
Report a violationPosted by: MadisonAve on Jul 15, 2008 10:34 AM
Doug Tooley: tilting at baby boomer and corporation windmills. I thought the subject was transportation? You're right, Doug. You've correctly identified the societal nitch responsible for all of your perceived problems. Now is your chance to convince 300 million people of your fringe views.

Crosscut should keep a permanent thread going for every disgruntled axe-grinder out in Internet Land. Mr. Tooley can host it.

This notion that ST should stop expanding its express bus, commuter rail and light rail expansion plans so we can all sit around and wait for another guilty subset to finish a public project he's already not paying for.

Which is a little weird.

If we had followed similar bizzarro advice for incredibly-overbudget and decades - delayed freeway projects, that huge I-5 upgrade in Doug's back yard never would have happened. But since the grudge experts could care less about progress (intellectual gridlock results in actual gridlock) it could be Mr. Tooley prefers the old dangerous and gridlocked version.

Great thing about the internets: you can be stuck-in-the-mud, and STILL share your stunted 'vision' with the rest of the world.
RE: Sound Transit - an Example of the Corruption of Corporate America under Boomer Leadership
Report a violationPosted by: dltooley on Jul 15, 2008 3:38 PM
The law is the law, for everybody, no?
RE: Sound Transit - an Example of the Corruption of Corporate America under Boomer Leadership
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 3:49 PM
Crosscut WriterWhat a ridiculous statement. Is the local bonding law now the same as it was in 1968? Yes. Did we need 60% for Sound Transit? For Transit Now? For the monorail votes? No. So why are you having such trouble with this? Forward Thrust was preferred by voters. Had an RTA existed at the time to administer the project, rather than being put on the same ballot (Proposition 2), we'd have mass transit right now.
RE: Sound Transit - an Example of the Corruption of Corporate America under Boomer Leadership
Report a violationPosted by: dltooley on Jul 18, 2008 5:54 AM
Proponents of public projects can take a holier than thou attitude - the public interest is something that needs to be debated. When you throw people in jail who are responsible participants in that debate you onlh 'convict; yourself.

Your statements in support of these practices makes you a co-conspirator, subject to arrest and being treated as a sex predator convict for the remainder of your days.

The law is the law, and if you don't want to be held to that standard perhaps you should defend those that have, even if they disagree with you.
You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 9:51 AM
Crosscut WriterThere are four or five different comments in there about totally different things.

Regardless, I just want to point out that the majority of voters approved of Forward Thrust. We just had a rule that was later disposed of - as people have access to more and more information, they are paralyzed by indecision and tend to vote nearly at random.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 1:12 PM
Ben Shiendelman writes: "the majority of voters approved of Forward Thrust. We just had a rule that was later disposed of "


I presume you're referring to the super-majority voter approval requirement the two Forward Thrust proposals failed to achieve. (Also, please note that the second forward Thrust vote even failed to achieve a majority. By the time that second vote came around in May 1970, the region's economic outlook had turned bleak with cancellation of the U.S.'s supersonic transport development program. Signs famously asked the "last person leaving Seattle to turn out the lights".)

Well Ben, you're mistaken that the super-majority rule was "disposed of". Indeed, the super-majority requirement still exists for bond measures, which is what Forward Thrust was.

What distinguishes ST's rail financing from that of Forward Thrust is 1) ST uses sales and MVET taxes as their funding base (Forward Thrust was a property tax-backed bond measure); and 2) on the ST ballot, voters were not asked to approve *bonds* (which would have required a supermajority), but instead were asked simply to provide the authority for higher sales and MVET taxes. (ST would then use this revenue stream to pledge toward repayment of bonds ST's Board would later issue.)

Authorizing these new taxes for ST only required a simple majority vote (which ST obtained their second time around in 1996.) No "rule" was "disposed of". ST's legal advisors simply crafted a way to tap taxpayer's pockets for a big rail plan that didn't face the higher super-majority hurdle bond approvals needed.

----

Ben Shiendelman also writes: "the [Forward Thrust] system would have opened in 1985 and been paid off last year."


"Paid off last year" is also incorrect. If you researched the Forward Thrust ballot measures (e.g. Feb 13, 1968's Proposition 1, Metro Public Transportation Bonds), you will find that it authorized bonds of forty-year maturities to be issued for a seventeen year period.

Here's that ballot title: "Shall Metro perform the function of metropolitan public transportation, adopt & carry out the Comprehensive Transportation Plan and issue, over 17 years, General Obligation bonds maturing within 40 years of issue, payable from annual property tax levies?"

This means the Forward Thrust rail project would have issued bonds through 1985 -- and those bonds wouldn't be paid off until 2025. That's some seventeen years still in the future, not last year.

----

Ben Shiendelman writes more: "One key answer is rail transit. Forty years later, BART isn't so "controversial" after all"


Yet even rail-friendly Berkeley urban planning professor Robert Cervero acknowledges that more that thirty years of careful studies of BART's performance reveals that, with the lone exception of SF's downtown business district (to which BART feeds most of its riders), BART displayed no significant influence in changing the pattern of development in the Bay Area.

So that's at odds with your claim that BART isn't so 'controversial' after all. BART's not controversial only if you choose to ignore the work of the researchers most familiar with BART.

As a result of rail focusing its impact principally on downtown, the end result is an implicit subsidy to downtown property owners, whose land and (new) office buildings gain added accessibility to the region's employment base, from which they can obtain higher streams of rental income. The added revenue stream enjoyed by those properties is immediately capitalized into higher property values. Those enhanced property values flow directly onto the private owner's balance sheet, as a (significantly) more valuable asset.

{cont
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 1:12 PM
{continued}

The only cost, to the property owner, associated with the benefit bestowed upon them is a slightly higher (~1.2% of the added value) annual property tax. That's a pretty low cost of capital, eh? (That's even better that what the Federal Reserve is granting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.)



This implicit subsidy to owners of new downtown office buildings approximates $100,000 or more per workspace cubicle. Nice subsidy, eh?



(P.S. That subsidy figure reflects application of the region's standard GMA-based impact fee formula. But the trouble is, the City of Seattle -in its infinite wisdom- doesn't levy impact fees on new downtown development that requires the provision of added taxpayer-financed transportation capacity. Hmmm.....)



----



Finally, Ben Shiendelman writes "Sound Transit's Link light rail is spurring thousands of new condos atop retail for the Rainier Valley, replacing vacant lots with dense development"



But you overlook a key inducement for that development, Ben. You didn't mention the 10-year property tax exemption provided by the City of Seattle for new multi-family residential construction, subject to affordability conditions, in eleven "targeted" Seattle neighborhoods most of which, like the Rainier Valley, are located along the proposed light rail line.



So it's an open question just how much this development reflects "demand" factors (i.e. people really clamoring to live in a transit village) or reflects "supply" factors (i.e. developers constructing housing that enjoys significant tax forgiveness, tax savings that don't have to be passed along to buyers.)



I'll let you muse on the answer to that one.



----



In closing, I'm reminded of that apocryphal line re: Lincoln's assassination. "Other than these errors, Ben, how'd you enjoy the play?"
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 1:51 PM
Crosscut Writer4) Your questions regarding supply and demand overlook the actual reason for a lack of development in these areas in the past. I mentioned CAP in the article - and there have been 30-65 foot height limits through much of Seattle, with single use zoning, for decades. Whether or not the rail causes the development itself directly isn't at issue. What the rail's doing is offering enough transportation capacity that the city can raise zoned density without gridlocking the transportation network.

This piece is about political realities. Just like trying to get buses their own right of way, there's been nothing we could do to get zoned density increased in Seattle until we started building rail.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 3:42 PM
.
Huh? 1989's CAP and 30-65 foot height limits were the reason for lack of development in the Rainier Valley? Ri-i-i-ght, uh-huh. I'll give you two more guesses.

Your reply nonetheless serves to illustrate what your advocacy of rail aims at: increased density. (Which you may achieve now that the price of the alternative, single-family housing, has gotten so high.) But is increased density what people prefer? I'd suggest the escalation of single-family homes indicates otherwise.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 3:59 PM
Crosscut WriterYou do understand that if there's a zoning restriction of 30 feet, you can't build higher than 30 feet? I'm not sure that's a guess - it's more of a statute.

Did you actually read the article? Of course I advocate higher density - but only in the core, where it makes sense because it stimulates economic growth. The point is to channel our new development into the downtown core - so that suburban homeowners don't have to fight developers. Right now we have parking lots covering whole blocks in downtown Seattle, and in order to support building on them, we need better transportation.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 1:45 PM
Crosscut Writer1) It wasn't a supermajority, it was 60%. Because of changes in the FTA grant process, we'd only require 50% today, as Forward Thrust would have been created as a transit agency. The fact that it wasn't at the time was an artifact of the environment it was created in, not any fundamental. Today it would simply have been part of Metro or Sound Transit.

2) The editor here added "paid off last year", it was not in the draft I submitted, and I regret having not caught that when I reviewed the piece. As inflation today is far higher than the bond rate would have been in 1985, we actually would be receiving a discount. Cool!

3) Your benchmarks for BART are only valid if you compare them to a no-build alternative. You can make whatever statements you want if you don't look at the costs and benefits of the alternatives. You do understand that those trips could not take place on existing SF highways, and that the SF highways necessary for those extra 300,000+ weekday trips would cost an order of magnitude more than BART did? Of course rail focuses its impact primarily on downtown, that's the most efficient place to put jobs. The efficiency gain of a dense job center is proportional to the increase in value - that's where the value comes from! Pretty basic microeconomics here.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 4:06 PM
.
1) 60% *is* a super-majority. A majority is 50% +1. Any higher hurdle constitutes a super-majority.


2) Jim Ellis last year made the unsupported claim in the press that the Forward Thrust bonds would have been paid off last year. His memory likely was flagging and maybe your editor remembered that factoid. Unfortunately it wasn't true.


3) No, the BART studies found, among other things, that the pattern of development along their rail corridors was not appreciably different (no more dense, etc.) than that found along the Bay Area's other transportation corridors (which is to say its interstate corridors). But SF's downtown *was* a big winner.


Ooooh -- you say downtown is "the most efficient place to put jobs". Now that's juicy. Will you please elaborate? Efficient for whom? The worker, the employer, the building owner, the government, the taxpayer/society? Is there /should there be only one 'downtown' in any region? Does it hold that it is always efficient to pump people into any and all jobs downtown, regardless of the distance needed to travel?

These are the *big* important questions looming over/behind the transportation issue. (And perhaps I should ask you to define efficiency, because that proved a pretty elusive concept in ST's EA for Initial Segment.)

If "the efficiency gain of a dense job center is proportional to the increase in values", then should we or should we not ask those who receive that gain to finance the improvement enabling that efficiency? Or might they not go for that idea because those efficiencies -however proportional to the increase in value they may be- are insufficient to justify investment of their own dollars?


P.S. You say "South Lake Union development is happening post-streetcar", I say it would have happened without the streetcar. I believe you are asking us to fall for the 'post hoc, ergo propter hoc' fallacy of logic.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 4:41 PM
Crosscut Writer1) Great response, there! I like how you won the semantics (you're quite right, a supermajority doesn't mean 2/3), and ignored the fact that today, that vote would have approved a system.

2) I guess you didn't read my response - I didn't write that originally, and while I take responsibility for not noticing it in the piece returned to me with edits, it is certainly untrue. However, $385 million in bonds for infrastructure now worth several billion is pretty clearly, in hindsight, the best infrastructure deal this city would ever have had.

3) You completely ignored the pertinent issue. How much would it have cost to move the people using BART today with highways? $50 billion? Remember that just expanding I-405 on the eastside is an $11 billion project to add some 50,000 people per day in capacity. How much would it cost in SF to add 300,000 in daily capacity?

So, what BART study are you talking about? Was it "BART at 20", the 1995 study showing that BART station walkable radii had increased in density by 30% with trend lines showing another 30% in the next 20 years? Or was it MTA's 2006 study showing that where density increased, as many as 50% of walkable radius residents used BART for daily commute trips (downtown excluded)? You also missed the 87c per trip the city of San Francisco pays to BART, offsetting the "benefit to the city" that you seem to have such a problem with.

There are no big questions about density and efficiency. If two people live next door to each other, they use less power line, water line, sewer line, and road as if they live a block apart. Unless you have magical infrastructure that doesn't scale in cost as it scales in size, that holds true.

What model would you propose we use to distribute costs to those who gain? That sounds like the same model as tolling every road. Answer your own question - why don't we do that? Hint: It's the same reason buses haven't gotten their own right of way. Individual car users like the subsidy they get, and don't want to vote to give it up.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 8:03 PM
I read your response. And you remain incorrect asserting "that vote [1968's 51%] would have approved a system." The super-majority would STILL apply today for the financing method proposed (bonds).

You seem to be suffering from some fundamental misunderstanding/ misperception on this point. You wrote: "Because of changes in the FTA grant process, we'd only require 50% today, as Forward Thrust would have been created as a transit agency."

No, the "50% today" hurdle has NOTHING to do with any change in the FTA grant process. It has simply to do with the ballot measures not asking voters to directly approve the sale of bonds. Period. End of sentence. End of paragraph. End of story.

Super-majority votes come into play only when voters are asked to *directly* approve bonds, traditionally property-tax backed bonds like those of Forward Thrust. The RTA folks side-stepped this requirement (they had learned a lesson from Forward Thrust that they needed a lower hurdle if they were going to succeed) when they set up an RTA simply by asking voters to approve the local taxes -- the subsequent power to sell bonds was embedded in the RTA's enabling act. Thus, ST's bond issues do not require voter approval of any kind, especially not a super-majority vote.

----

The BART studies are voluminous -and I'm far from an expert in them- but even Robert Cervero (and other well-regarded University of California transportation researchers) has acknowledged BART's impact on the spatial distribution of activity in the Bay Area over the past 30+ years was insignificant.

You can pose the question, well what would those BART riders do if BART didn't exist? Could highways handle the trips they make?

I don't know. It's a hypothetical. Whatever answer you or I would give would be immaterial. BART exists. It is what it is. To speculate what the Bay Area would be without it is beyond my expertise -- and way beyond my interest.

Besides, a 30% increase in density within "walkable radii" from a station sure doesn't say much. I remember watching a slide presentation at a People for Modern Transit gathering in Bellevue back a few years. Ron Sheck (now at WSDOT) showed his collection of pictures of urban rail systems he'd visited.

Sheck's slide of a BART station area was laughable. Yes, you could see ~5 story office buildings from the station platform, but you'd have to wade through acres upon acres of cars to get there!! (It was 'walkable' like hiking to Husky Stadium for a Saturday football game. It's not something you'd want to do every workday. I'm confident the vast majority of the employees in those buildings drove to the office. Maybe a small handful who traveled out from SF took BART.)

Was this "concentrated density" at the station? A big flat NO. A 30% increase from NOTHING is still pretty close to NOTHING. I'm confident Bob Cervero would concur.

----

The big questions about density and efficiency are not merely whether the public will personally buy into it (i.e. clamoring to live above or near a transit station), although that's a big enough question to be sure. But a big question is also who should pay for the public infrastructure needed to support that density? Should a quite sizable outlay of public dollars bestow -at no cost- significant increased value on a small handful of property owners, while serving (i.e. transporting) a similarly thin slice of all those whose taxes pay into it? And, perhaps the most metaphysical question of all, who should be empowered to decide what is the proper balance & spatial distribution of your desired goals, efficiency and density, on the land we occupy?

{cont}
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 8:04 PM
{cont}

Your illustration that with density, there may be a lower per capita demand for infrastructure is not sufficient reason to require al l members of society be subjected to your preferred levels of "efficiency" and "density". You should put that question to the people and see how they allocate their own dollars in a free market.

Maybe they would prefer a little more elbow-room than you would be willing to allocate to them, even though it may require a bit longer power line, water line, sewer line, etc. If they want it, can afford it, and are willing to pay for it, what's wrong with letting them have that extra elbow-room? Or do you find repulsive the prospect of people in a free society choosing their own living styles?

To your question, one model I would propose to distribute costs to those who gain is that established in the Growth Management Act: impact fees on new development that requires added public infrastructure to serve. Just like new suburban subdivisions require new school capacity and are subjected to impact fees, new downtown office buildings that require new transportation capacity should also have impact fees applied to them. Impact fees are a simple method of recognizing the economics of serving new development and apportioning the costs to those who benefit. What's wrong with that?

P.S. Exactly what is the subsidy you claim individual car users get? I'm baffled by this urban myth. Please explain.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 18, 2008 7:20 AM
In regards to your comment regarding subsidies to individual car users, you might find interesting the information at this site:

www.keeptexasmoving.org/index.php/
news/Do_Roads_Pay_for_Themselves%3F

(sorry, Crosscut wouldn't allow the full link because it exceeded their 60 character limit, you'll have to double copy & paste).

According to the Texas Department of Transportation (not a hotbed of liberalism and transit) NO non-toll road EVER pays for itself in gas taxes and fees. Which means every individual car uses receives subsidies for EVERY trip they take in their cars. I found interesting the example sited that would require every vehicle using a proposed road to pay a gas tax of $2.22/gallon to pay the actual cost of the road.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 18, 2008 3:19 PM
.
That's an interesting piece, but still leaves me puzzled since user fees (gas & vehicle (tire) excise taxes) constitute the sources of ALL state and federal dollars for highway budgets. (In Texas, for whatever reason, it looks like the schools even walk off with 25% of those collections.)

Here's the puzzle: In the aggregate (across the entire Texas road system, not simply on a road-for-road basis), if those user fees didn't generate enough dollars to build the present roads, then how did those roads ever get built? Did the DOT borrow tons of money and create some huge, as-yet unfunded overhang of future debt payments? (I don't know, but that would seem to be the only possible answer to the puzzle, but I suspect the situation I surmise is not correct.)

The historic financing of highways, reliant as it is upon user fees (i.e gas taxes), naturally leads to situations where some roads don't "pay their own way". But that result doesn't mean such situations are wrong or unreasonable, given the social & economic benefit enabled by an integrated system of transportation.

For example, county roads don't pay their way, but they feed commerce to arterial roads & highways. And that commerce enables benefits like jobs, paychecks, profits and property taxes that support local communities where that commerce (agriculture or industry) occurs. Without that county road, those jobs, paychecks, profits and property taxes simply wouldn't be possible. "Subsidizing" those roads thus can yield more economic gain than the cost of the subsidy. And thus that subsidy is justified (although it doesn't mean the DOT receives enough revenue to keep on doing what it's been doing. The DOT doesn't get a share of those benefits).

I wouldn't want each and every link in a transportation network to have to justify itself by revenues that can be attributed to it. Not even the telephone company enforces such a standard, since communication is such a basic good in society.

Thanks for bringing that piece to my attention. I did find it interesting - and reflects a similar measure (ROANA: "Return on Average Net Assets") used in leading-edge for-profit companies I've seen lately.

I suspect DOTs throughout the states are experimenting with metrics that describe the 'return' of the discrete elements that constitute their systems. Metrics which might offer some guide in how to most effectively allocate their limited or scarce fiscal resources between O&M and discrete large capital projects. (I suspect TxDOT may also be angling for either a boost in their gas tax, the removal of schools from the pot or some new revenue source, like tolling and/or leasing major roads to private investors. There's a big movement now underway in D.C. to open the door to private financing to replace the need for further hikes in state and federal gas taxes.)
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 18, 2008 6:39 PM
I tend to doubt that user fees (gas & vehicle (tire) excise taxes) constitute the sources of ALL state and federal dollars for highway budgets. While I haven't done much research on it, I do know that the city I live in has in its budget funds for road building and maintenance and these funds do not come from user fees, they come from the general budget. The same with the county I live in. If I was to investigate the state budget I tend to think (again I can't state it for a fact) that I would find the funding for many highway projects come from general and bonding funds, not user and gas fees and taxes.

I would find it doubtful that you've never had a vote on city, county or state initiatives to fund road building, like last year's Roads and Transit or the $40 billion transportation initiative this fall on the California ballot. The funds to pay back these bonds quite often come from general tax revenues, not user fees and taxes. And even if they are backed by specified user fees, they are almost always backed by the government issuing them, which means if the specified fees aren't enough to pay back the bonds, the local or state government will cover the payments (again, from general funds). And many (if not most) of the billions of dollars in federal transportation earmarks come from the general Federal budget, not the Transportation funds (the joys of pork barrel spending).

I agree with you that I wouldn't want each and every link in a transportation network to have to justify itself by revenues that can be attributed to it. But if you don't require it of roads, why require it of transit? Why the double standard?

And as for putting the question to the people and see how they allocate their own dollars in a free market, unfortunately we don't have a free market for transportation in this country. Most of the right of way the railroads use was given to them by the Federal Government in the 19th century. Governments use Eminent Domain to obtain land for road projects (they can even do this for privately owned toll roads). Government funds then pay for these road projects. Governments build and maintain ports (Port of Seattle anyone?). Governments build and maintain airports (ever heard of SeaTac?) and the Feds pay for the Traffic Control System. And I haven't been able to find any reference to a vote being taken before I-5 was built to find out if the people wanted it or not, or I-405 or any other freeway in the area. Or am I not googling the question correctly?

By the way, regarding your analogy with the phone company, back when there was still a Ma Bell, the quid pro quo with the Government was "We'll let you (the phone company) be a monopoly and use public right of way for your phone lines at little or no cost but you must serve EVERYONE in your service area, even if you lose money on some of them". In fact, one of the fees on your phone bill is the Universal Service Charge which reimburses phone companies for the money they lose serving rural customers.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 19, 2008 6:01 AM
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I was correct in saying that state and federal highway budgets consist of gas tax and related excise taxes. There's some slight variation in how these are assessed in the various states (e.g. I believe truck firms in Oregon prepare & file a weight-distance report and pay a 'use tax' in lieu of paying the tax at the pump), but the unifying general principle is that state road budgets are funded from the users. (BTW: bonding isn't a different source -- look at how the bonds are paid off, typically from gas taxes.)

Now, when it comes to *local* streets (city and county), that's a different matter than state and federal highways. Local roadways, including their maintenance, are reliant upon local tax revenues, most typically property taxes. You may wish to think of this as an exception to the 'user-paid' situation of state and federal roads, but it's really not quite so. Since the value of land is improved by gaining access to the road system, using taxes derived from the value of a parcel of property for the purpose of the local road network is, roughly speaking, a user tax.

I'm unaware that the Congressional earmarks are from general federal funds. When the sh1t hit the fan about earmarking (when the "bridge to nowhere" was exposed), the focus was on how many (thousands) earmarks were found in the *Transportation* appropriations bill. That bill disposes of transportation-related dollars, which I believe are principally user fees.

You may be surprised to learn that federal transit grants, like those multiple hundred billion ones provided to ST, come from the gas tax receipts that flow into the federal Highway Trust Fund. That fund has a Mass Transit Account which receives 2.9 cents of the federal 18.4 cent gas tax, about one-sixth of the gas taxes the feds collect. The last 0.9 cent of that amount came from when the 4.3 cent/gallon gas tax increase, enacted by the Clinton administration in 1993 (where that tax hike was used for balancing the federal budget, not transportation), was redirected from the fed's general fund back to the Highway Trust fund four years later.

As for your perception that there's a double standard between roads and transit 'paying their way', that's a misperception. Nobody, except fools, expects transit to pay for itself. You will find comments in blogs along that line, but there's a pretty well-settled understanding in our society that public transit requires subsidies. However, that doesn't equate to a "transit at all costs" regardless of the cost per rider, share of the population supported by those subsidies, or opportunity cost (inability to address other worthy projects) that the 'transit uber alles' crowd seems to believe they're entitled to out of their neighbor's pocket.

I believe Air Traffic Control, airports and those other examples you cite are generally funded from revenues collected from system users. Certainly the federal grants come from things like ticket taxes; the local matching dollars may not always be (but that's a local decision). Like all other airports, SeaTac gets gate fees, landing fees, etc. from the carriers who consider this a cost of business and incorporate these costs into their ticket prices. The PoS undoubtedly programs those revenues into their capital projects. Same with car park revenues. All these are USER FEES. It's as close to a market as possible.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 19, 2008 9:33 AM
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sorry, make that "multiple hundred MILLION ones provided to ST", not billion...

Those grants will nevertheless *sum* to over a billion.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 19, 2008 5:47 PM
I read your comments and I am more than willing to admit that your may be right. My question is, when you say that state and federal highway budgets consist of gas tax and related excise taxes is this coming from actual knowledge and verifiable and easily referenced sources or is this coming from from "well, of course everyone knows that all of the money for state and federal highway budgets come from gas and vehicle excise taxes". Can you with certainty state that the State of Washington collected X dollars in gas tax and related excise taxes in Fiscal Year 2006 and that is what was spent? As I said, I'm more than willing to admit you are right but I haven't been able to locate any figures.

My gut feeling is that there is a lot of subsidizing from other areas of the budget (both State and Federal) for road construction and maintenance. Things like "we're going to build a freeway on this right of way in 5 years but we'll buy the land now using money from this area of the budget instead of charging it to the WSDOT budget since we're not actually BUILDING the road yet, they're budget is tight anyway and if we move the money from HERE no one will really notice anyway" or "to build this road we're going to have replace the wetlands that will be destroyed during construction but since we'll be creating NEW wetlands we'll charge THAT to the Department of Natural Resources budget since it's wetlands, which is obviously falls under their juristiction". Given how politics tends to work I think there's a lot more of this type of thing going on than people think. If some area of the Government or a powerful politician wants a road or in interchange or a bridge built, they're not going to let the fact that there's not enough money in the WSDOT budget or available from the Feds stop them; they'll find the money SOMEPLACE.

I've always thought it would be interesting to pass laws saying that the ONLY money that could be spent on roads HAD to come from road related taxes, including land purchases, construction, maintenance, repair and replacement; the same with Ports and Airports. That is, a direct link would have to be established between money collected and money spent. I think to maintain the level of current spending gas taxes, port fees and air ticket surcharges would probably end up doubling or tripling. Unfortunately, I doubt that will ever happen.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 19, 2008 5:56 PM
And as far as your comments regarding my "perception that there's a double standard between roads and transit 'paying their way'" I don't really think it is a "misperception". If you were to take the rest of your comment:

However, that doesn't equate to a "transit at all costs" regardless of the cost per rider, share of the population supported by those subsidies, or opportunity cost (inability to address other worthy projects) that the 'transit uber alles' crowd seems to believe they're entitled to out of their neighbor's pocket.

and replace "transit" with "roads" and "doesn't" with "does" you would be describing the last 50 years of American transportation policy quite accurately.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 20, 2008 5:24 AM
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OK, this is a more substantive point, one that leads to further horizons.

But let me first assure you that, with respect to the earlier question about whether all transportation outlays are paid for by users, my knowledge and certainty arises from having worked in the field for quite some time (albeit now awhile ago), specifically in the finance area. More recently (although also some time ago) I had a hand in writing a general state budget and can attest there was only a smidgen of $ provided to the DOT, for what purpose I no longer recall. Certainly nothing significant, nor under-handed.

BTW: you should know that Washington state adopts three separate budgets: 1) a general fund budget (for K-12, DSHS, DNR, Colleges/Universities, etc.); 2) a transportation budget (principally for WSDOT, but also any agency that receives transportation tax dollars such as the agency that distributes some of the state's gas tax to counties and I believe cities); 3) a capital budget (for state buildings, including campuses, and other major capital outlays *other than* transportation.)

A handful of states, like New Jersey, don't segregate transportation dollars from their general fund budgets. It's all one big budget, lending itself to the kind of stealing from one pot to feed another that you suspect. I think NJ has big budget problems, some possibly a result of such past behavior. I do know that NJ has mused about leasing its tollroad(s) to a private investor, the upfront lease could produce ~$20 billion, which the NJ legislature likely would use to cover their budget difficulties.

I can't cite the current WSDOT budget, but my specific knowledge there isn't particularly important. I'm sure it can be found on the web, though understanding the Sources of its funds may require a glossary of terms. But you will be very hard-pressed to find any "outside" slush-fund money from non-transportation related activities.

Now (finally) to your challenge that the last 50 years of American transportation policy is "roads at all costs". This almost seems to be a generational thing (I suspect you're under 40, if not well under 40.) But more accurately I think its a misunderstanding of the purpose, benefit and effect of transportation. Indeed, I think you may be mistaking land use policy for transportation policy.

A rebellion against the predominant mode, the personal auto, reflects an understandable concern with the rather visible outcome of lots of people preferring and relying upon the auto to conduct their daily business.

But keep in mind that personal mobility (freedom to travel when & where one desires) is an unqualified *good* in society. Sure, substituting another mode (say LRT) for auto seems to offer efficiencies and some escape from the visible symptoms, congestion, excessive neighborhood traffic and pollution, we associate with the automobile. Others will point to the purported efficiencies of density as justification to seek alternatives to personal mobility.

American transportation policy has not been "roads at all costs", but rather to serve land, to enable land to become more productive (allow its "highest and best use"). That's just a statement, not an endorsement of the practice in all its expressions. There is nothing inherently wrong in serving land and affording personal mobility.

BUT...one can raise questions as to whether the patterns of land use lend themselves to an attractive society. But there's no reason to suspect that one UNIFORM pattern (density, jobs-housing proximity, affordability) provides "the answer". Indeed, there CAN BE no one answer in a diverse market-driven free society.

{cont}
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 20, 2008 5:30 AM
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{cont}

But there *can* be standards applied when public $ are involved. Suggesting that new individual roads should "pay their way" would be a rough attempt to impose a standard. I have no problem with applying standards, as the simple effort of developing and applying a standard serves the purpose of exposing, among other aspects, the economics at play when major transportation investments are being contemplated. (This is why I offered elsewhere in this thread that ST's rail-based programs constitute a $100,000 per cubicle subsidy to new downtown office buildings. In my thinking, that is the outcome of a transportation policy that too-liberally serves land - or more specifically, serves the *owners* of that land.)

Once the economics are exposed (for roads or for transit), we as citizens can make more informed decisions on how to best spend our limited transportation tax dollars -- and, implicitly, our land use practices. Absent this exposure, we're reduced to arguing factoids and 'preferences' (often hidden prejudices), disguised behind patriotic-like calls to "world class city" greatness, etc.

I would rehash my views re: the potential for Northgate becoming a full-service (office, retail, housing) downtown-like district for a wide swath of north Seattle and the lower tier of Snohomish County, but my word limit is approaching (Ed: I guess I passed it). I will merely suggest that developing Northgate along these lines (rather than simply a 'port' with a huge parking structure through which thousands pass enroute to downtown via LRT) is a more economical (mostly just needs private $) and thus more efficient solution to the visible problems associated with auto culture.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 20, 2008 10:26 AM
My comments on on "roads at all costs" actually came from looking at Boston's Big Dig. In looking at the original construction of I-95 through Boston I was amazed at the 10s (if not 100s of thousands of people considering the density of the neighborhoods it was built through) who were arbitrarily displaced by its construction. I use that term because the attitude of the transportation planners seemed to be "we're building this freeway, this is where we're building it and there's nothing you can do to stop it". And they succeeded in destroying neighborhoods that had existed for decades. This led me to the construction of I-75 in Detroit which destroyed the Black Bottom neighborhood, a vibrant, middle class African American neighborhood from who's destruction Detroit's black community has never recovered from. There are cases like this in just about every urban area in the country.

The attitude of most Transportation Departments for the last 50 years has had very little to do with land use planning or best/highest use and more with "what's the most efficient way to move vehicles (not people) from point A to point B". It is why freeways are built, it is why streets are made one way. Not for land use planning but to move VEHICLES. For example, if you were to make every one way street downtown a two way street, what would happen? Would it make for a more pleasant environment for pedestrians? Probably, since you wouldn't have streams of cars zooming past you at 35-40 miles an hour. Would it be quieter? Probably, since slower vehicles tend to make less noise. But it would increase travel time for VEHICLES, which is why transportation planners would fight it tooth and nail. Their jobs, as they see it (on the whole), it to move VEHICLES in the fastest and most efficient means possible. Not worry about land use or highest and best use and not worry about the pedestrian.

If you look at most suburban arterials, they tend to be 4, 6 or 8 lanes wide. Are there provisions for pedestrians to easily cross them? On the whole, no. In fact, many (if not most) don't even have sidewalks! Again, they are designed to move VEHICLES (not people) in the quickest and most efficient means possible.

Yes, personal mobility (freedom to travel when & where one desires) is an unqualified *good* in society. However, our current society seems designed around the concept of vehicular mobility and not personal mobility. As a personal example, I recently had to take my car in for some work. The mechanic is about 2/3 mile from my house so I could drop it off and walk back home instead of waiting there for several hours. And there are NO sidewalks between the two locations, even though part of the route is along a major artery. And in suburbia, this is the rule and not the exception.

Yes, you could say that there is a "rebellion" against the predominant mode, the personal auto in many places, I somewhat disagree with your term "preferred" means of transportation. It is not that it is preferred but in our society in most cases it is the "only" means of transportation available to them. I lived in the DC area for a while and I took Metro just about everywhere, it was fast, convenient and reliable. I would love to be able to take transit to work but there is no easy for me to do so, even though I live 1/4 mile from a major artery and work 1/2 mile from two major arteries. So I have no choice but to use a car.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: swtmix on Jul 20, 2008 10:28 AM
Over the last 50 years could transit lines have been built in conjunction with the freeways and arterials that were built in our urban and suburban areas? Of course they could have and just imagine what things would be like if that had been done. But they weren't. And this is a result of the "roads at any cost" attitude of transportation planners over the last 50 years that you claim isn't true. Because over the last 50 years, except in certain limited cases, that is ALL that was built. Roads.

And yes, it would be nice if citizens could make more informed decisions on how to best spend our limited transportation tax dollars. But that almost never happens. I haven't been able to find any references to a vote asking "should I-5 be built, yes or no?". Should I-405 be built? Or I-90? A vote only seems to come up when transit is involved. Yes, there have been votes on fund to expand EXISTING highways, but I still don't recall any on building new highways or arterials. Can you point out for me any votes on the initial BUILDING of any of the mail traffic arteries in the area?
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 20, 2008 11:31 AM
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Yes, indeed I can point to such votes (tho' they took place well before I arrived in Seattle).

"In a February (1972) referendum prompted by litigation over its design,
Seattle voters reject the proposed Bay Freeway, an elevated
highway over Mercer Street between I-5 and the Seattle Center.
In a separate referendum, Seattle voters also terminate the R.H.
Thomson Expressway plan once and for all and abandon the city's
$11.1 million street improvement bond authorization approved by
a public vote in 1960."

Re: that public vote in 1960,
"Seattle voters approve an omnibus highway bond issue for $11.1
million anticipated to serve as local match to 90% federal funding.
Proceeds of the bonds are to be allocated for an "Empire
Expressway" (later the R. H. Thomson Expressway), four ramps to
the Alaskan Way viaduct in downtown Seattle, extension of the
Spokane Street viaduct to Harbor Island, and an expressway along
Shilshole Avenue. A separate, $1.9 million bond measure for an
elevated roadway along Mercer Street (the "Bay Freeway") also
receives voter approval. Twelve years later in 1972, Seattle voters
overwhelmingly decide to terminate the R.H. Thomson
expressway plan, abandon the $11.1 million bond authorization
and to not construct the Bay Freeway between Aurora and
Interstate 5 (giving birth to the modern-day "Mercer Mess".)"

Source: "A Citizen's Guide to Transportation in the Puget Sound
Region: A Timeline of Events Shaping Where We Are Today"
2004, unpublished, Thomas Heller)

I can't speak to votes for I-5 or 405, although the I-5 corridor had received a *lot* of attention by the state legislature for several years. In 1953, the state legislature authorized the Washington State Toll Bridge Authority to "study and, if feasible, after approval by the state highway commission, to locate, construct, finance and operate as a toll road, until paid for, an express highway from the vicinity of Tacoma through Seattle to the vicinity of Everett.

Two years earlier, the legislature authorized $66 million in highway
construction bonds, including $49 million to accelerate
reconstruction of Primary State Highway No. 1 from the Oregon
border to the Canadian border and $4 million for a 4-lane
highway at Snoqualmie Pass (SB 156, c. 121 L. 51). The same bill contained a
section, vetoed by Governor Langlie, directing the toll bridge
authority to complete surveys and plans for a toll tunnel through
the Cascade mountains between the vicinities of Cliffdel and
Greenwater and to proceed with construction "as soon as
finances become available.

So, not all roads proposed get built. I suspect that I-5 and 405 were considered the region's piece of a national interstate system -perhaps viewed as an obligation- designed (and financed) largely via federal direction. I-5 is, in many ways, a conversion of an older state highway corridor.

P.S. Moving vehicles shouldn't be considered the inverse of -or at odds with- moving people. Besides, I'd rather give people the ability to move *themselves*. Private vehicles permit this.

P.P.S. to your query about building transit in freeway medians, the region's earliest rail transit proposals (after the streetcar era ended in the late 1930's) indeed were aimed to occupy the median of what was to become I-5. Seattle's Transit Commission lobbied for this. (Unsuccessfully, it appears.)
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 15, 2008 8:37 PM
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Ben Sheidelman writes: "just expanding I-405 on the eastside is an $11 billion project to add some 50,000 people per day in capacity"


I guess you didn't read my rejoinder to this erroneous interpretation the other day when you posted this same misinformation in the PI Soundoff the other day. Perhaps you should pay a visit to http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff /comment.asp?articleID=370371 and learn something.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 15, 2008 10:56 PM
Crosscut Writer"The page you have requested was not found. The link is either incorrect or the page no longer exists."

You seriously argue that adding 2 lanes each way to 405 is cost effective compared to light rail?

Look, I'm not interested in responding again to your twisted arguments. Simply the fact that you cling to this idea that Forward Thrust improvements couldn't possibly be presented the same way as Sound Transit 2 makes the rest of your argument appear uninformed and baseless.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 7:57 PM
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remove the space between soundoff and /comment and you'll get there. (Crosscut prohibits long words.)

Where do I say Forward Thrust couldn't be presented (what's that mean?) the same way as ST2?

Define cost-effective and we can take a shot at comparing light rail to 405.
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 11:07 AM
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"...the 87c per trip the city of San Francisco pays to BART, offsetting the "benefit to the city" that you seem to have such a problem with."


I know nothing of that. I'm curious as to its history and purpose. Has this been around from the line's inception?

Does that payment come from the pockets of downtown property owners whose holdings (buildings) reap the benefit of BART? Or does it come from general taxes? (Or, even more pertinent to this thread, is Seattle planning to follow SF's lead?)

Is the payment intended to cover some of the O&M costs associated with downtown-destined commuters? If so, how much of that cost does it really cover?

Inquiring people want to know...
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 12:24 PM
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oops, I blew that. Should read "inquiring minds want to know."
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 7:25 AM
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Ben Scheidelman sez: "As inflation today is far higher than the bond rate would have been in 1985, we actually would be receiving a discount. Cool!"

Huh? That's just another incorrect statement. The market rate on 20-year municipal bonds in 1985 hovered around 9%. Even counting the recent spike in gas prices, today's inflation ISN'T "far higher" than that. (But then again, maybe you're talking about inflation in construction projects.)

According to the Federal Reserve's data base (http://federalreserve.gov /releases/h15/data/Monthly/H15_SL_Y20.txt), the market rate for 20-year muni's has exceeded the borrowing rate for all of ST's bond issues to date for the entire period from 1969 through 2001.

So, contrary to your claim, Forward Thrust's bonds would have been more expensive, not less. Cool, eh?
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Ben Schiendelman on Jul 16, 2008 8:50 AM
Crosscut WriterI think it's fun how your claims are dwindling down to just one...

From your link, the majority of the Forward Thrust bonds would have been issued at a 5-6% interest rate, well under the 10-15% construction inflation (the only inflation that matters for construction costs...) we've been seeing in the last few years.

Looks like even your last gasp is dreadfully wrong! It must be a little embarrassing for you... perhaps next time you might do better if you asked questions, rather than making wildly inaccurate claims?
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 9:25 AM
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So, too, are all ST's bonds at or under 5%. If you then want to claim that borrowing at 5% to incur costs today that are escalating at 10-15% constitutes a bargain ("discount"), then be my guest.

The interest rate at which you borrow is unrelated to the cost -or even the quality or effectiveness- of the project, jerk (sorry, but you've earned that appellation). Even SMP learned that.

The same goes for mortgages -- interest rates around 6% says nothing of the expected direction or rate of movement in housing prices. If you wish to claim there's a relationship, give treasury Secretary Henry Paulson a call -- he's got a big problem on his hands. Perhaps you can convince him that mortgage interest rates should be -10-15%. Yeah, sure.

So, let's recap:

- you don't understand the term 'supermajority';
- you're unaware that state law, not FTA rules, govern voter approval hurdles;
- you claim that CAP and zoning height limits are why development in the Rainier Valley lagged for decades;
- you don't acknowledge that property tax exemptions for multi-family residential development played a significant role in changing the face of the Valley;
- you advance one goal (density) as if it's a universally-accepted norm that everyone should be obligated to adhere to;
- to achieve that goal, you're willing to bestow through light rail a $100,000+ per workspace (cubicle) subsidy upon owners of downtown property, including new downtown office buildings;
- you don't embrace impact fees, an essential aim of the Growth Management Act intended to get growth to pay for itself' (indeed, you likely revere their absence in the transportation realm);
- you advance unsubstantiated claims that downtown is the most efficient place for jobs and that road users are subsidized;
- you aren't aware of a principal conclusion of 30 years of BART studies;
- you cite a 30% density increase near BART stations as world-changing;
- you grossly mischaracterize the capacity of the 405 widening project; and
- you conflate borrowing costs with project inflation.


That tallies to thirteen errors in your submission on this thread alone. I'll give you an "A". (Grade-inflation, you know. Plus, I don't want to hurt your self-esteem.)
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Matt on Jul 16, 2008 11:02 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I've seen you post the $100,000+ subsidy per cubicle in about every comment you've made on this side. Care to cite a reference for that one?
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 16, 2008 7:04 PM
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It's my own calculation, employing the very same impact fee methodology & assumptions underlying school impact fees under GMA. I produced that number about seven years ago, pouring ST's financial plan into the spreadsheet I modified, from specific application to school fees (I formerly consulted in this area and 'automated' my analyses) to one fitted to transportation. (It was a pretty easy modification.)

I designed it to produce a 'rounded' number for illustration purposes, but the steps meticulously follow the settled methodology employed for school districts around the Puget Sound region and elsewhere. It (the methodology) was devised by the mid-1990's and I believe first adopted by ordinance in King County.

I think it provides a helpful measure of the economics of adding transportation capacity (in this instance ST's rail-dominated programs) that's designed principally to deliver commuters/workers to downtown.

Without this kind of approach, those economics are pretty well-concealed behind per rider costs, etc. But the riders aren't so much the beneficiary of these projects, the property owners are. The gain in accessibility they obtain from the largess of the region's taxpayers is capitalized into a higher value for their holdings. This impact-fee method reveals the scale of that gain, stated in a handy unit cost.

Thanks for asking....
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: Matt on Jul 17, 2008 8:57 AM
So this number you keep using is your own unpublished calculation? I'm sorry, but whether or not you've used school district methodology it just fails the sniff test.

Not to mention the huge assumption that such a system only benefits commuters. I won't need to use it for commuting, but will be happy to pay my share because of the benefits it will bring. If only there were a way to see if a majority of the voters agree with me...
RE: You make no sense...
Report a violationPosted by: the former Tom Heller on Jul 17, 2008 11:43 AM
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As my own calculation, it is private and doesn't need to be published. (Although maybe you'll want to subpeona me.)

But you didn't read my post well enough, Matt. I didn't say "such a system only ben