There is no credible estimate for anything over 3000 in attendance at this astroturf Hansen payed for "rally". The 6000 estimate came from the events organizers, who are in the employ of Hansen. This was a Hansen payed for public relations event.The Hansen payed organizers are not credible.

The astroturf "rally" was meaningless.

According to the MOU in Section 10, Seattle would be the only governmental entity to pay Hansen public funds. Seattle taxpayers'/citizens' would be forced to pay Hansen 115-120 million dollars of public funds to meet Hansen'a demands.

There has been noise about King County paying Hansen. The MOU says that the King County contribution would be "up to five million". "Up to". The Interlocal Agreement says that if King County's contribution were less than 5 million, then King County could opt out of the proposal. Even if King County payed the top amount, 5 million dollars; that would still be negligible compared to the Seattle 120 million.5 million dollars is about 1 years debt service on the Seattle 120 million. The Seattle 120 million of public funds is 24 times the top King County contribution. The King County contribution is not worth mentioning.
King County would contribute 80 million dollars more if an NHL team were acquired to play in the arena before the "transfer date". The transfer date is at the end of arena construction. The requirement for an NHL team has been removed from the proposal. Hansen has said that he is not interested in buying an NHL team, there is no known group seeking an NHL team for this proposed arena. There is very little chance of an NHL team being secured before the "transfer date". The NHL, and the King County 80 million are simply window dressing for the proposal.

So, Seattle would pay 120 million dollars in public funds. This is money that is owned by the Seattle taxpayer/citizen. This money is not owned by non-Seattle citizens. The Seattle City Council is deciding on whether or not to reject this proposal. Seattle citizens elect the Seattle City Council. Non-Seattle citizens do not vote for Seattle elective offices.The non-Seattle citizens would not pay for this proposal.

There was no way to differentiate the Seattle Citizens from the non-Seattle citizens at the "rally". The "rally" was a mix of Seattle citizens, that would pay; and non-Seattle citizens, that would not pay. The "rally" was a mix of Seattle Citizens, who's opinion on this issue should matter to the Seattle City Council; and non-Seattle citizens, who's opinion on this issue should not matter to the Seattle City Council. There was no way to tell the number at the "rally" that were Seattle citizens. That makes the "rally" meaningless.

This arena issue has become strictly a Seattle issue. The opinions of Seattle voters/taxpayers/citizens are the only ones that matter in regards to this proposal. It is very easy for non-Seattle citizens; who would not pay for this proposal, or enter into any legal entanglement with Hansen; to loudly demand that Seattle citizens do pay Hansen, and that Seattle citizens do get legally entangled with Hansen. That is who was at the "rally".

Also, there is much more opposition to this proposal in Seattle than just the Port, and the Maritime corporations. The citizens of Seattle do not wish to pay billionaires welfare for a project that the billionaires could easily pay for themselves. There is very little support in Seattle for this arena proposal.

Well said jhande. This “rally” demands that the Seattle taxpayer take the $120 million downside of yet another white elephant.

It’s only a matter of time when this new facility becomes our next Key Arena or Kingdome, no longer polished enough to meet the NBA’s “minimum standards” nor shishi enough to support the ticket prices for the eastside fan’s “sports experience”.

Sorry – Stern has picked our pockets. If Bellevue & Redmond want to play their game, go ahead.

Um, getting your attendance figure from Hansen's PR people isn't really what one would call solid journalism. jhande and knute have basically echoed my sentiments, particularly around the fact that people who are not Seattle residents do not have a say in this.

It is ridiculous that Hansen, Ballmer, Nordstrom A and B, etc. cannot self-fund this arena when it has been done in NJ (MetLife Stadium) and is in the process of being done for another NBA team in SF.

Finally, have a look at another idiotic state funding scheme that came back and bit taxpayers in the rear in Rhode Island:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/_38_studios_and_kingdoms_of_amalur_how_curt_schilling_s_video_game_company_duped_rhode_island_out_of_75_million_.html

Just what we need. Oh and BTW, has the Mayor and Seattle City Council forgotten about all of the other ballot initiatives rate increases on the docket in the next 12-24 months? SCL rate increase, seawall levy, 2 more education levies (totaling OVER 1 BILLION), library levy, etc.

Who knows what additional transportation fixes we will be on the hook for to accommodate this arena?

The citizens of Seattle do not wish to pay billionaires welfare for a project that the billionaires could easily pay for themselves.

Ditto.

I also heard Councilman Burgess on the radio last week saying, "All of Seattle would like the Sonics back." Since when does he speak for all of Seattle? Speak for yourself, Councilman.

Lastly, is this the most important thing for our city's elected officials to be thinking, meeting and pondering? Crime all cleaned up, schools working, streets smooth, neighborhoods with sidewalks? That's all done? If not, turn away and get back to the real work of this city.

It doesn't matter what the people here want. The skids are greased. Each and every member of both councils will be paid off, one way or another.

What Dow & McGinn, especially, don't get, is that the public does NOT want public funds to go toward an arena. Make that the overwhelming majority, as credible opinion polls have shown. They don't want to pay for another sports arena, and they especially don't want to pay for the deindustrialization of Sodo to create an "entertainment district" that squeezes out thousands of family wage jobs and valuable small and large businesses for low-paying service-sector jobs in more bars, restaurants, strip clubs and perhaps even a casino.

The addition of Ballmer, Nordstroms, and whomever else Hansen has hidden in the weeds makes it crystal clear that these guys can pay for their toys with their own money, without a public "loan" to give them "a lower interest rate." Not a soul can say with a straight face that they need one dime of public help.

Furthermore, the idea that the public should just roll and and let them socially engineer a key jobs sector of the city is beyond arrogant. McGinn is such a lame duck hear nearly tips over sideways; Constantine is thankful to have the focus on the arena rather than on some of other things he's been involved in.

With all the pre-rally hoopla including the 24/7 push by one radio station and nearly as constant yammering on the topic by another, the arena supporters should be embarrassed that they could only generate a crowd of 2,000 people or so in a city of half a million and a region of millions. Perhaps if supporters didn't just blithely reject the legitimate concerns about this proposal, perhaps if even one of them could answer the question why these billionaires and millionaires, with all their tax loopholes and accountants and shelters, really "need" public support, and why that is more important than education, streets, social services, libraries and other things that don't require $50-$200-$500 tickets just to get in, perhaps then they could be taken seriously.

it would be great to have the old Sonics here; even better if they never left. But it's a pipe dream. Any "new" team will be ripped out of another community. That is not a "need" by any stretch of the imagination. And further damaging access to the waterfront and industrial sector in the most trade dependent state in the country is far too big a price to pay.

Even if the 6000 attendee figure is correct, and I have no evidence either way, that represents fewer than 10% of Seattle's residents. I would like to see an article talking about the fact that as other posters point out, Seattle residents are overwhelmingly opposed to the deal as currently countenanced. I find it quite interesting that at first this was touted as needing no public funds, but it has quietly morphed to hundreds of millions of our bonding capacity. Not to mention the debt service to which jhande refers. Why can't no mean NO, just for once?

If these folks want to build a stadium, then they need to finance it 100% and site it elsewhere.

I was against the Schulz/ NBA/ Key Arena deal because of the public money that would have gone to it.

This deal is different. No new tax dollars, and no money from the general fund, will go to the arena. It will be a net win for the City taxpayers.

The folks are the rally yesterday were from Seattle. And the folks writing to the City Council in favor of this proposal are from Seattle. Yes, you lesser Seattle folks don't want more development, we get it. But the majority of voters in Seattle want an NBA team - they, we, just demand it be a good deal. And that is what Seattle has worked out.

I agree with the naysayers that past NBA deals have been horrible - and we shouldn't use public funds that could be dedicated for other things to make sure NBA players keep their big salaries. However, we should leverage the City's bonding capacity, backed by new taxes that would be created only by a new arena, to develop the arena, create new jobs, and add a layer of culture and activities to this City.

The City Council members who favored the Schulz/ Key Arena deal shouldn't pretend we don't remember who they are, and those folks should be jumping all over this deal, even if it may make our current mayor look good.

Let's do this thing. AND let's build an overpass for the port while doing it.

Ah, Mr. Meinert, the one who wanted to get rid of last call so we could have your drunken customers driving our streets at all hours. Thank God for the WLCB. Are you going to open a 24-hour drunk tank in Vegas now?

The deal does include plenty of new tax dollars. There's the new property taxes that every Seattle homeowner would pay and the admissions tax charged at the Sodo arena that's not charged at CenturyLink or Safeco. This is a proposal that's not "self financing" like Hansen has tried to claim. It will be financed on the backs of Seattle taxpayers.

I was at the rally yesterday and Quin Benzel needs to correct the attendance figure in the story. It's so way off it's a joke, and I can't believe the reporter would accept the fake number thrown out by Hansen's PR people. This was a political rally whose organizers had every motivation in the world to release an overblown attendance figure that had nothing to do with reality.

There were maybe 2,000 people there, which was WAY below what the Hansen camp expected. Don't get me wrong - this number still looked good enough for photos and videos, but this was an event preaching to the choir of that small group of hardcore Sonics fans. It was also two-thirds dudes in their 20s and 30s - not exactly the makings of a mass movement.

2,000, 3,000, whatever - that's a huge number and larger than any event any city council member could put together.

These people - even if they are a majority of "dude in their 20s and 30s" are voters, and local politicians would be wise to listen.

2/3 of Seattle voters oppose any tax revenue of sny sort being used to pay for a new pro sports arensa. Local politicians would be wise to listen to the 2/3 majority of voters who oppose this deal, that gives away public money to subsidize some of the wealthiest people in the country, including Steve Ballmer, who is worth about $15.7 BILLION all by himself.

Why would the city even consider any tax subsidies for the ONE-PERCENTERS who can obviously afford to pay the entire cost of their privately-owned, for-profit NBA business?

There's no evidence they are voters. They are probably beer drinkers, though. Was there beer at the rally?

No welfare for multimillionaires and billionaires, no public dollars to drive family-wage manufacturing and industrial jobs out of Sodo. They don't need one dime of public funds. They could build the arena all by themselves, and should, but not in Sodo.

Life must be pleasant in your simplistic bubble.

Coming from a simple mind who thinks the City Council should listen to a tiny minority of 2,000 t 3,000 people who have nothing better to do on a Thursady afternoon that attend a little "rally". lol How many of those few thousand at the rally were too young to even vote?

Life must be pleasant in your simplistic bubble.

Not any simpler than the "bubble" inhabited by your inebriated customers, David.

First of all, even if there were 6,000 people at the rally, that would be only ONE percent of Seattle's 600,000 residents. And many of those in attendance surely were not Seattle residents. Obviously, Chris Hansen, Gary Payton etc. are NOT Seattle residents.

However, this rally was entirely meaningless, no matter what the actual attendance. There was an almost identical rally a few years ago to "Save our Sonics" and shortly after that rally, the City Council agreed to let the Sonics move to OKC. So, these rallys mean nothing and ccomplish nothing, other than to allow a few people to get off work early, or give some unemployed people an activity to attend. I would assume a great number of attendees were kids who aren't old enough to vote, anyway.

So, this rally was a non-event.

What is important are the recent polls showing about 2/3 of Seattle voters opposed to any tax revenues whatsoever going into any new arena in Seattle. Those polls show a true cross section of the Seattle electorate. This rally was just a group of some of the 1/3 of Seattle voters who would support any new NBA arena no matter what the financial deal.

Everyone already knew that about 1/3 of Seattle voters want a new NBA arena, even if it is publicly subsidized. So, a few thousand of those 1/3 of voters showed up at a rally. Who cares?

There are still 2/3 of SEattle voters oppposed to any tax revenues at all going into a new NBA arena. That is the big story -- not some little rally by a few thousand diehard NBA fanatics.

The opposition can have their AstroTurf rally at one of the park benches where you can give each other a Schrammy.

There is no "opposition" group. There is a vast majority of individual Seattle citizens; who see through the this "deal, who understand that the MOU is written to only benefit Hansen's group, and who understand that they have been lied to by the proponents/supporters of the proposal in an attempt by the proponents to manipulate public opinion for the proponents sole benefit. Hansen, Ballmer, the Mayor, et al, are transparently self serving (selfish), and demonstrate no actual concern for the Seattle Citizen. The proposal is a giveaway to Hansen/Ballmer.

Seattle citizens figure that Hansen/Ballmer have enough money to pay for their own proposal. Seattle citizens are correct about this. Seattle citizens do not see the need to have two taxpayer funded NBA arenas. Especially, not after the way the NBA treated Seattle. 26 of 28 NBA owners voted to allow the real Seattle Sonics to relocate.

Seattle citizens do not wish to pay 120 million dollars of Seattle citizens' money to Hansen/Ballmer for Hansen/Ballmer's business facility. Balmer lives on public subsidy, take a look at the government subsidy his corporation, Microsoft, enjoys. Those government subsidies assist Ballmer in enriching himself. A major component of Hansen's hedgefund,Valiant Capital, is setting up Cayman Island accounts to assist wealthy clients with tax avoidance. Hansen, and Ballmer, put a lot of effort into tax avoidance for themselves.

Seattle citizens see these billionaires, who do not want to pay taxes,running to the government demanding that taxes be payed them; and Seattle citizens are sickened by this craven greed. Seattle citizens do not want an aristocracy with Lords using citizens, and their city, as a wallet. Hansen/Ballmer may think that they are Lords, or Barons, but they are not. Hansen is a citizen of San Francisco. Ballmer is a citizen of Washington state. Hansen/Ballmer are citizens, just like any other citizen.

So, Mr. Baker, there is no astroturf opposition. There is no payed shill opposition (don't you get payed by the astroturf Hansen groups?). There is just a vast majority of intelligent Seattle citizens, who oppose this con-game "deal" individually. There is nothing in the MOU for a Seattle citizen to support.

There won't be any astroturf opposition "rallies". There may be Seattle Citizen instigated rallies; but these would not involve billionaire payed for astroturf websites,or billionaire payed for astroturf radio stations, or PR organizers in the employ of billionaires. The Pay Hansen "rally" was the definition of an astroturf "rally". How much were Kemp, and Payton payed to show up? How much did the bands get payed? This was an attempt at payed manipulation of public opinion by tax avoiding billionaires, who once again want to feed at the public trough. Seattle is not buying it.

Also, should the Seattle City Council be so foolish as to not reject this fatally flawed proposal; the Citizens of Seattle will have their rally at the voting booth, as they vote Hansen's welfare arena proposal out of town. The MOU/deal is a symbol of major corruption in Seattle City Government. So, frame away, Mr. Baker, maybe you will get a pat on the head from your Lords/Masters; Hansen, Ballmer, and the Nordstrom Princes. This proposal will be rejected by Seattle Citizens doing their civic duty for no gain but the honor of doing Right.

I'd like to be optimistic, jhande, but I honestly believe the City Council has already been paid off. When it comes election time, Hansen's cronies will fill their campaign coffers, and they'll all be re-elected. Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt I am. The voters are aren't exactly alert.

To those of you of rational mind and logic capable thinking;

If you swim to the bottom of the cess-pool, you will see that the sports venue will, for the most part, be publically funded. The portion of this racket that can be moved and sold will be owned by the Sheriff of Nottingham and his Jolly Vultures Group (aka, VulgaR).
The current popular figures for what the City will pay ($120 million), assumes the team and venue will be profitable for the total term of the "arrangements". That being absurd, the City will actually be on the hook for the entire costs and expenses from day one to eternity. When one considers how much time and effort the "owners" devote to courts and attorneys, one might imagine that in the end (bankruptcy) they would create a reason to sue the City for screwing up their "business" and receive a payment for the costs of moving the team to the next sucka !

It must be gratifying for them (and the Faux Mayor McGin), to have someone like DMeinert covering them in the Crosscut Comments - look him up - public figure, and go to guy for Mike's rebuild of Seattle.
Yuck ..... now I need another shower !
Jsa
P.S. it is funny to imagine the majority of Seattleites wanting to pay for this elite gladiator arena. If a majority supported it, the Sonics would have had a huge attendence and would have been motivated to stop the annual beg-a-thons. In this instance, I look forward to the announcement of a Tim Eyman patronage revocation referendum. One could only wish for a RICCO charge from the US Attorney, but that ain't happenin !
Reminder - Aaron Reardon is "innocent" - maniacal laughter >>>>>> hahahahahaha ......
Jsa

Fail math did you?